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post #3196 of 6360

Okay I just got around to listening to the Theta DS Pro Progeny v. A and I decided to do S/PDIF pass through from my HT Omega Claro Halo soundcard of pure PCM to the toslink input of the DS Pro Progeny.

 

I am going to say right now off of first impressions,

 

HOLY !@$! this is like the Bifrost Uber on steroids..

 

I mean the Bifrost Uber gets close to sounding "analog" but now I really see what people are talking about when they refer to this "warm analog" sound with serious balls in the bass department that a lot of these new DACs wish they could be.

 

WOW first thing came to mind was spacious soundstage, the Bifrost Uber isn't quite there. Also, I am going to say right now this is like the Bifrost Uber without the slight infection of "digititis" in the highs and has way more cajones in the bass region. <--Definitely NOT neutral but way more enjoyable.. Looks like this is going my main rig for redbook audio cause it sounds better than the Bifrost Uber :):):beerchug: I haven't even tested out the coaxial input but will when I get my Peachtree T1.. what a major score at $276 + free shipping

 

 

BTW here's a list of what I have listened to so far, don't make fun of me :biggrin:

(all are FLAC or PCM 16/44)

David Bowie - China Girl, Let's Dance

Sublime - Pawn Shop

Def Leppard - Hysteria

Trentemoller - Le Champagne

Shiba San - Okay

Queen - Somebody to Love

Death Cab for Cutie - Soul Meets Body, I Will Possess Your Heart

Disclosure - Latch

Nu Shooz - Goin' Thru the Motions

Cocteau Twins - Sugar Hiccup

Van Halen - Ain't Talkin 'Bout Love

Deadmau5 ft. Kaskade - I Remember

Led Zeppelin - Good Times, Bad Times

Fleetwood Mac - Dreams, Say You Love Me

 

playing new music through a piece of equipment made in 1994 and enjoying it more than something from circa 2010 is like telling people from the past that the future is actually very scary and includes boatloads of D-S chips & digital nasties :confused_face:

 

note to Mike Moffat: the Bifrost Uber is not superior to the Theta DACs of yesteryear.. now I see why you are coming out with the Yggdrasil. Maybe you had a change of heart :biggrin: 

 

OH and did I mention? this thing kicks @#%$in @$$ for $276

 

last edit:: I'm in music heaven.. goodnight Head-fi I could care less if the Yggdrasil came out today or tomorrow just let me get intoxicated by the sounds of the DS Pro Progeny and spare it lives another 20 years given it looks like it's brand new with no nicks or scratches


Edited by wahsmoh - 3/24/15 at 1:38am
post #3197 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

So here is my dilemma, I want to try a new DAC sound signature, but I'm worried about the hashy Sabre DACs. They really just don't sound that good from what I have heard and read. Great at resolution, but very rarely do I ever hear them being called musical. Sabre suggestions are welcome, but certainly not cold implementations. I value ubber resolution less than listen-ability. Currently I still like my Gungnir, but after two years I have decided I need a new sound signature. I don't want to do a side-grade, and I'm willing to spend about $1000 - $1400 for a new DAC. I was tempted to stretch for the Yggy, but at $3000US, plus shipping, plus duties, plus taxes, well, it becomes $4000 Canadian very quickly so I need another option.

I have a line on an Audio GD Master 7, which would be great, but it doesn't have the USB which requires I sink in at least $500 more simply to connect it so that is feeling hard to swallow on top of the $1800 for the DAC.

Ideally there would be a DAC in my price range that would be able to improve on the resolution ability of the Gungnir, yet remain musical and not be overly analytical. I could be wrong, but it seems that most Sabre implementations are very detailed focused, and that in my limited experience results in elements being dissected out of the music while the overall music suffers and becomes sterile sounding. Perhaps there is a Sabre DAC that isn't like this? I'm open to suggestions for a standalone DAC, no amplifier section, and it should be fully balanced. Maybe I want to much for too little?

I am not sure what answer you'll get in an anti-Sabre thread biggrin.gif
Anyway, I should get the X12 today or tomorrow. It is supposedly one of the most analogue and smoothest sounding Sabres.
It is not 1000$+ but still, I have high hopes smily_headphones1.gif
There is also the audio-gd DAC19
post #3198 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

 

OK - you'll forgive me if I've never quite understood the Canadian perspective on this. 

 

1. The projected sticker on the Yggy is 2300USD - somewhere in the vicinity of 2880 CAD. 

2, Is shipping really that exorbitant from the US to Canada ? I realise that both are very big countries, but you should be able to get an estimate using the Rag as your guinea pig : same dimensions, similar weight

 

This site gave me a duty amount of 144CAD based on the 2880 figure for 'DVD / Blu-ray Players' (the closest I could find to any form of audio component):

 

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/dte-acl/est-cal-eng.html

 

Obviously, I have no idea which province you live in, but you're still well short of 4000CAD by my calculations. I accept that its easy for me to spend your money, and I'm in a similar position here - I just wonder if you've thought this through. Everything you claim to want from a DAC seems to be precisely what purrin is claiming for Yggy - spending 1500-2000 CAD on another DAC will be a false economy if you are no happier with your choice 6 months from now. We've all been there - I definitely went down that road with headphone amps till I bit the bullet and shelled out for a Taurus - and it's a road I dont like to see others travel. 


I know brother really I do, but add 13% tax on top of that figure as in Ontario that is what we pay so it will be creeping above $3000 toward 4K easily. And yes, at that weight the shipping will be at least another $100 I'm sure, hell the Asgard 2 was about $35 if I remember correctly so it is indeed almost $4k. I really want the Yggy, but not that much, at least not now so I really do want to stay at about 2K Canadian. Surely I can improve a little on the Gungnir for that price point? Maybe not.

post #3199 of 6360

If the Yggdrasil is as good as people on this thread are making out, you might as well sell your Gungnir to finance it.

post #3200 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolo View Post

If the Yggdrasil is as good as people on this thread...

The DACs are never as good as the people biggrin.gif
post #3201 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

So here is my dilemma, I want to try a new DAC sound signature, but I'm worried about the hashy Sabre DACs. They really just don't sound that good from what I have heard and read. Great at resolution, but very rarely do I ever hear them being called musical. Sabre suggestions are welcome, but certainly not cold implementations. I value ubber resolution less than listen-ability. Currently I still like my Gungnir, but after two years I have decided I need a new sound signature. I don't want to do a side-grade, and I'm willing to spend about $1000 - $1400 for a new DAC. I was tempted to stretch for the Yggy, but at $3000US, plus shipping, plus duties, plus taxes, well, it becomes $4000 Canadian very quickly so I need another option.

I have a line on an Audio GD Master 7, which would be great, but it doesn't have the USB which requires I sink in at least $500 more simply to connect it so that is feeling hard to swallow on top of the $1800 for the DAC.

Ideally there would be a DAC in my price range that would be able to improve on the resolution ability of the Gungnir, yet remain musical and not be overly analytical. I could be wrong, but it seems that most Sabre implementations are very detailed focused, and that in my limited experience results in elements being dissected out of the music while the overall music suffers and becomes sterile sounding. Perhaps there is a Sabre DAC that isn't like this? I'm open to suggestions for a standalone DAC, no amplifier section, and it should be fully balanced. Maybe I want to much for too little?

The EE Minimax Plus is a pretty smooth sabre. Tube output too, you can color the sound as you wish. Prolly about $7-800 2nd hand nowadays. Just check the dedicated thread for extra info.
post #3202 of 6360

Or just use a Tube VST plug-in which you can roll tube with a simple mouse click.

 


Edited by borrego - 3/24/15 at 6:59am
post #3203 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post
 

So here is my dilemma, I want to try a new DAC sound signature, but I'm worried about the hashy Sabre DACs. They really just don't sound that good from what I have heard and read. Great at resolution, but very rarely do I ever hear them being called musical. Sabre suggestions are welcome, but certainly not cold implementations. I value ubber resolution less than listen-ability. Currently I still like my Gungnir, but after two years I have decided I need a new sound signature. I don't want to do a side-grade, and I'm willing to spend about $1000 - $1400 for a new DAC. I was tempted to stretch for the Yggy, but at $3000US, plus shipping, plus duties, plus taxes, well, it becomes $4000 Canadian very quickly so I need another option.

 

I have a line on an Audio GD Master 7, which would be great, but it doesn't have the USB which requires I sink in at least $500 more simply to connect it so that is feeling hard to swallow on top of the $1800 for the DAC.

 

Ideally there would be a DAC in my price range that would be able to improve on the resolution ability of the Gungnir, yet remain musical and not be overly analytical. I could be wrong, but it seems that most Sabre implementations are very detailed focused, and that in my limited experience results in elements being dissected out of the music while the overall music suffers and becomes sterile sounding. Perhaps there is a Sabre DAC that isn't like this? I'm open to suggestions for a standalone DAC, no amplifier section, and it should be fully balanced. Maybe I want to much for too little?

Maybe consider the new Gustard X20 that's supposed to be released in a limited run around May timeframe? Pricing hasn't been released yet, but I'm guessing it will be in your budget. Check the general Gustard thread in the Amp forum for more info. The X20 uses the Sabre chip, but so does the X12, which isn't supposed to be harsh. Nobody has heard the X20, though, and I haven't heard the X12 so I'm just throwing out an option, not speaking from experience.

post #3204 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsmoh View Post
 

Okay I just got around to listening to the Theta DS Pro Progeny v. A and I decided to do S/PDIF pass through from my HT Omega Claro Halo soundcard of pure PCM to the toslink input of the DS Pro Progeny.

 

I am going to say right now off of first impressions,

 

HOLY !@$! this is like the Bifrost Uber on steroids..

 

I mean the Bifrost Uber gets close to sounding "analog" but now I really see what people are talking about when they refer to this "warm analog" sound with serious balls in the bass department that a lot of these new DACs wish they could be.

 

WOW first thing came to mind was spacious soundstage, the Bifrost Uber isn't quite there. Also, I am going to say right now this is like the Bifrost Uber without the slight infection of "digititis" in the highs and has way more cajones in the bass region. <--Definitely NOT neutral but way more enjoyable.. Looks like this is going my main rig for redbook audio cause it sounds better than the Bifrost Uber :):):beerchug: I haven't even tested out the coaxial input but will when I get my Peachtree T1.. what a major score at $276 + free shipping

 

 

 

BTW here's a list of what I have listened to so far, don't make fun of me :biggrin:

(all are FLAC or PCM 16/44)

David Bowie - China Girl, Let's Dance

Sublime - Pawn Shop

Def Leppard - Hysteria

Trentemoller - Le Champagne

Shiba San - Okay

Queen - Somebody to Love

Death Cab for Cutie - Soul Meets Body, I Will Possess Your Heart

Disclosure - Latch

Nu Shooz - Goin' Thru the Motions

Cocteau Twins - Sugar Hiccup

Van Halen - Ain't Talkin 'Bout Love

Deadmau5 ft. Kaskade - I Remember

Led Zeppelin - Good Times, Bad Times

Fleetwood Mac - Dreams, Say You Love Me

 

playing new music through a piece of equipment made in 1994 and enjoying it more than something from circa 2010 is like telling people from the past that the future is actually very scary and includes boatloads of D-S chips & digital nasties :confused_face:

 

note to Mike Moffat: the Bifrost Uber is not superior to the Theta DACs of yesteryear.. now I see why you are coming out with the Yggdrasil. Maybe you had a change of heart :biggrin: 

 

OH and did I mention? this thing kicks @#%$in @$$ for $276

 

last edit:: I'm in music heaven.. goodnight Head-fi I could care less if the Yggdrasil came out today or tomorrow just let me get intoxicated by the sounds of the DS Pro Progeny and spare it lives another 20 years given it looks like it's brand new with no nicks or scratches

Haven't heard any Thetas, but my Parasound D/AC-1100 sounds better than my Gungnir in most areas. I probably won't be getting a Yggy anytime soon, but I can't wait for some trickle down technology that will bring the Gungnir up to the Parasound's level or above. 

post #3205 of 6360

This is probably a dumb question, but I searched a bit and didn't see an answer. I am currently using my Macbook Pro as the source (playing Spotify on "Extreme" setting). The laptop features a mini-optical jack so I am using a cheap mini-Toslink to Toslink cable to connect the laptop and DAC. I think the optical out sounds better than the USB on my older Audio-gd DAC. Is this a decent way to connect an BiFrostUber or older Theta, or will I see dramatic improvement if I spring for a $150-$200 USB converter (likely either the Gustard U12 or Schiit Gen 2/3 USB)? I am unlikely to move away from my computer as the source.

post #3206 of 6360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post
 

So here is my dilemma, I want to try a new DAC sound signature, but I'm worried about the hashy Sabre DACs. They really just don't sound that good from what I have heard and read. Great at resolution, but very rarely do I ever hear them being called musical. Sabre suggestions are welcome, but certainly not cold implementations. I value ubber resolution less than listen-ability. Currently I still like my Gungnir, but after two years I have decided I need a new sound signature. I don't want to do a side-grade, and I'm willing to spend about $1000 - $1400 for a new DAC. I was tempted to stretch for the Yggy, but at $3000US, plus shipping, plus duties, plus taxes, well, it becomes $4000 Canadian very quickly so I need another option.

 

I have a line on an Audio GD Master 7, which would be great, but it doesn't have the USB which requires I sink in at least $500 more simply to connect it so that is feeling hard to swallow on top of the $1800 for the DAC.

 

Ideally there would be a DAC in my price range that would be able to improve on the resolution ability of the Gungnir, yet remain musical and not be overly analytical. I could be wrong, but it seems that most Sabre implementations are very detailed focused, and that in my limited experience results in elements being dissected out of the music while the overall music suffers and becomes sterile sounding. Perhaps there is a Sabre DAC that isn't like this? I'm open to suggestions for a standalone DAC, no amplifier section, and it should be fully balanced. Maybe I want to much for too little?

 

My advice is to wait a few months. Don't do anything. Don't buy anything. Don't sell anything.


Edited by purrin - 3/24/15 at 9:49am
post #3207 of 6360

Sounds like something is coming.

post #3208 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

My advice is to wait a few months. Don't do anything. Don't buy anything. Don't sell anything.

 

oh lordy.  an-ti-ci-pation!

:popcorn:

post #3209 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post
 

So here is my dilemma, I want to try a new DAC sound signature, but I'm worried about the hashy Sabre DACs. They really just don't sound that good from what I have heard and read. Great at resolution, but very rarely do I ever hear them being called musical. Sabre suggestions are welcome, but certainly not cold implementations. I value ubber resolution less than listen-ability. Currently I still like my Gungnir, but after two years I have decided I need a new sound signature. I don't want to do a side-grade, and I'm willing to spend about $1000 - $1400 for a new DAC. I was tempted to stretch for the Yggy, but at $3000US, plus shipping, plus duties, plus taxes, well, it becomes $4000 Canadian very quickly so I need another option.

 

I have a line on an Audio GD Master 7, which would be great, but it doesn't have the USB which requires I sink in at least $500 more simply to connect it so that is feeling hard to swallow on top of the $1800 for the DAC.

 

Ideally there would be a DAC in my price range that would be able to improve on the resolution ability of the Gungnir, yet remain musical and not be overly analytical. I could be wrong, but it seems that most Sabre implementations are very detailed focused, and that in my limited experience results in elements being dissected out of the music while the overall music suffers and becomes sterile sounding. Perhaps there is a Sabre DAC that isn't like this? I'm open to suggestions for a standalone DAC, no amplifier section, and it should be fully balanced. Maybe I want to much for too little?

 

Check out the Dangerous Source.

post #3210 of 6360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
 

This is probably a dumb question, but I searched a bit and didn't see an answer. I am currently using my Macbook Pro as the source (playing Spotify on "Extreme" setting). The laptop features a mini-optical jack so I am using a cheap mini-Toslink to Toslink cable to connect the laptop and DAC. I think the optical out sounds better than the USB on my older Audio-gd DAC. Is this a decent way to connect an BiFrostUber or older Theta, or will I see dramatic improvement if I spring for a $150-$200 USB converter (likely either the Gustard U12 or Schiit Gen 2/3 USB)? I am unlikely to move away from my computer as the source.

 

It's true that older USB tends to suck. However, the newer USB implementations Schiit's Gen2, XMOS, etc. are pretty good sounding. If you want to try an older Theta, go for the cheap Gustard.

 

I don't think the differences will be dramatic. But this is a hobby where people are willing to pay for small incremental improvements

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