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Numbers,.... Male vs Female HeadFiers? - Page 8

post #106 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

 

You also avoid to see negative impact of women emancipation on different aspects of social and individual life. You want to see only a positive side of a coin. 

 

Maybe I'm not quite understanding what you're saying here.

 

For one thing, I don't have much sympathy with socialism. If anything my sympathies lie with individual choices. And I agree with you that radicalism, whether it be on the side of biological determinism or social determinism, will inevitably lead to very poor outcomes.

 

I believe in data driven approaches. In this field of social sciences we have limited, unclear and often contradictory data. We have data that the differences between men and women are not as large as they appear, or they are expressed in different ways other than what we might anticipate based on our previous assumptions. For instance, if it turns out that females tend to perform worse in maths tests NOT because they have less mathematical ability but because they react differently to competition, this might give us a better understanding of how to employ this kind of potential in a useful manner by designing systems that take into account these kinds of differences.

 

If we did not have feminism prompting us to re-evaluate our initial expectation, we might never have made the inquiry in the first place. Feminism plays its role by continually urging us to re-evaluate our assumptions where they may be incorrect. This does not mean that these assumptions never have merit or that the ideas of the theory are practicable. Marxism might give us an interesting framework for understanding capital (and even a useful insight into how some people might perceive systems in terms of class struggle) but as a rationale behind resource allocation it is absolutely dismal.

 

Perhaps you see something more systematic and institutionalised in feminism than I do, but as far as I can see from my perspective in Australia and looking at what goes on in the US, feminism is still a reactionary movement against a status quo. I do not see a one sided threat of radical third wave feminism that you seem to see. And I would hold that a humanist idea that people be given the opportunity to excel without preconceptions about their ability is not one that is likely lead to a system of systematic oppression against any particular group of people.

 

Then again, the Westboro Baptist Church supports African American civil rights but rails against the rights of homosexuals, so I suppose in the hands of idealogues any contradiction of ideas is possible.

 

Anyway it seems like it would take a lifetime of experience rather than a forum discussion to persuade either you or me about any of this. On the original topic, all I can say is that it seems slightly crazy to presume that women do not take to the hobby of audio because they have deficiencies in hearing.

post #107 of 121

^^
Every movement has its time and purpose.  As circumstances change, people change, new generations come up, they start giving the movement their own meaning, based on their own biases and assumptions.

 

Feminism had its purpose in the West. As far as I can see, its purpose has been served. Its still neded in the East, where I don't really see any prominint feminist movements.

 

The point was made, actions taken. If anything's holding back women in the West today, its their own apprehensions.

post #108 of 121
This thread has gotten very dark & heavy - yet isn't asking the REALLY important question:

Pepe Le Pew: Celebrating the male/female relationship, or sexual predator?


post #109 of 121
This is funny because its true...
post #110 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post
 

I believe in data driven approaches. [...] I suppose in the hands of ideologues any contradiction of ideas is possible.

 

I am wary of this line of argument because this is what American politicians and journalists who call themselves "post-partisan" say about themselves and those they disagree with.

post #111 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

This thread has gotten very dark & heavy - yet isn't asking the REALLY important question:

Pepe Le Pew: Celebrating the male/female relationship, or sexual predator?



^^
You do realise they're not the same species?
Or you're implying something else?
Yep, the thread has become dark indeed.
Edited by proton007 - 12/16/13 at 4:17pm
post #112 of 121
Of course I know they aren't the same species - I just didn't think it mattered. Isn't that the ideal social relationship that is demanded by minority groups everywhere? wink.gif
post #113 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Of course I know they aren't the same species - I just didn't think it mattered. Isn't that the ideal social relationship that is demanded by minority groups everywhere? wink.gif

 

You mean that of a sexual predator? Ewwwww.

post #114 of 121
lol - nooooo - I mean one in which the differences between people are recognized, but then completely ignored, unless the differences should be noticed, in which case they are noticed, except when one person wants them to be noticed, but the other person doesn't, in which case your brain explodes...
post #115 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

lol - nooooo - I mean one in which the differences between people are recognized, but then completely ignored, unless the differences should be noticed, in which case they are noticed, except when one person wants them to be noticed, but the other person doesn't, in which case your brain explodes...

 

More like we want to choose when we're the same and when we're different. Its natural to use the social situation to one's advantage.

I'm surprised by the rate at which members in various forums are accused of writing sexist remarks. Taking offense = sexism. 50 years ago it was Taking offense = communism. Another 300 years ago it was Taking offense = Heresy.


Edited by proton007 - 12/17/13 at 2:26am
post #116 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
 

 

More like we want to choose when we're the same and when we're different. Its natural to use the social situation to one's advantage.

I'm surprised by the rate at which members in various forums are accused of writing sexist remarks. Taking offense = sexism.

 

Do you have any idea why some men don't see or close their eyes on unfair applications of feminism you have described above? 

post #117 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post
 

 

Do you have any idea why some men don't see or close their eyes on unfair applications of feminism you have described above? 

 

Ingroup favoritism, outgroup derogation?

 

There may be other reasons I'm overlooking, I'm not so sure.


Edited by proton007 - 12/17/13 at 2:25am
post #118 of 121

On Being a Feminist In Russia

 

Quote:
 As horribly small-minded as it is for a foreigner to pass judgment on a culture to which he or she is unaccustomed, while wandering around St. Petersburg, I could not help feeling awfully uncomfortable, even personally affronted. My reaction to the dress of many Russian women was (and still is) prescriptive and culturally insensitive (but it’s okay as long as I acknowledge it, right?). How could any of these women, who show up to work and school in four-inch heels, heaps of make-up, and restrictive, skin-tight clothing, possibly be taken seriously by their male colleagues? One of my peers wittily inquired, “is this a school or a night club?” I have never, I thought to myself, felt so content with womanhood in the United States.

 

There are several points I want to make about attitudes of this typical American feminist:

 

1) in every sentence: women...women...women...women...women...

 

Pathological fixation on gender. I've read a story of a British black guy who grew up and never thought about himself in racial terms but when he came to America he started to be aware of himself as a black person which is not good. I think that being constantly fixated not on personality but on gender or race is not a healthy thing.

 

2) immediate ridicule and attack on another culture and condescending attitude toward it as retarded and patriarchal

 

3) reading her she made an impression of a person who is full of stereotypes and prejudices and living by them. She wrote: "For now, I will choose to take the assertion that cosmetics make women feel good about themselves with a substantive grain of salt". Yeah, natural instinctive inclination to feel attractive to opposite sex is retarded and patriarchal.


Edited by mutabor - 12/17/13 at 5:05am
post #119 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post
 

On Being a Feminist In Russia

 

She wrote: "For now, I will choose to take the assertion that cosmetics make women feel good about themselves with a substantive grain of salt". Yeah, natural instinctive inclination to feel attractive to opposite sex is retarded and patriarchal.

I agree with the rest.

On the last point, I'd add the fact of competing amongst themselves. It happens in all social situations. Some are more competetive than others.

post #120 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post
 

[...] I've read a story of a British black guy who grew up and never thought about himself in racial terms but when he came to America he started to be aware of himself as a black person which is not good. I think that being constantly fixated not on personality but on gender or race is not a healthy thing.

 

 

Some Americans, but not ordinary ones, are obsessed with race. Usually, the obsessives are white-collar whites in the big cities, who don't actually know any non-asian minorities personally. They staff the media and the schools, so one hears about it much more than anyone actually believes it.

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