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On a mission to like jazz - Page 46

post #676 of 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinto View Post

 

 

Personally I can´t stand people who dislike Glenn Gould, I will have nothing to do with such people, they are dangerous people :D

 

 

Gould was a genius, a master for sure.  I will admit though that his taste in furniture was not his strong suit .... especially chairs :D

post #677 of 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalcoil View Post
 


 Believe me Spyro I am trying to agree with you on this.  And you do make a valid point that in some cases perhaps "purists" do jump to hasty conclusions regarding Metheny, espescially (and I agree) with his almost non typical Jazz instrument.  Not that guitar is non traditional but you know what I mean (he gives off a Rock vibe to some ...lol)

 

And without being short sighted or at least trying to be I still cant wrap my head around Metheny being considered a master of the genre.  This is not to say I don't like his stuff because I do,  I just feel that he is not in the same league as an Evans or a Jarrett.

 

I have heard a fair amount of his stuff and while enjoyable I still find it lacking in true "genius".  Talented yes he is....Jazz genius he is not IMO.

 

PS : I think Monk is overrated .... lol :beerchug: 

Sorry, did not mean to jump on you.  Glad you understand my point.  To me, take away his 10-15% of rock/smooth contemp and the rest is really an avant garde/free realm type of jazz.    Like Chick and Miles, Pat Metheny discovered and created careers for many jazz musicians, most notably Antonio Sanchez who I think is the greatest living drummer under age 40.  I think, too, if you ask todays modern jazz kings like Jason Moran, Chris Potter, Brad Mehldau or Christian McBride I think they WOULD wholeheartedly agree that Metheny was every bit in the genius category of a Chick or Miles.  Heck, even ask the older guys like Dave Holland, Gary Burton or Jack Dejohnette, or the late Michael Brecker....same thing. 

 

His two  most recent releases with Unity Band are both very different type of ensembles and this is what I like.  Like the first release is a rawer stripped down feel to it and the second is a larger vaster more epic sized ensemble of music.  Hard to explain but very purposeful. I am excited to see what he will possibly do with a 3rd release.  Every song, every note each phrase every release has a purpose.  Always moving, never standing still or making records just to make records.  That's what I like.

 

Anyway, don't wanna argue, just explaining my point.  Cheers!


Edited by Spyro - 7/20/14 at 2:51pm
post #678 of 683

Don't want to get contentious either (Don't wanna fight!;) but.....regardless whether you like his music or not, Pat Metheny is as intelligent, complex, and a true virtuoso of his instrument as ANY, Jazz or whatever genre, musician that's played music, period.  I don't even like a lot of what he's done, but the dude's a colossal talent, can't be denied.  I'm not sure I'd even call his music Jazz at this point.  I mean, just 'cause a band plays instrumentals and improvises doesn't automatically make it Jazz, right?   I'm seeing some pretty extreme points of view on this thread.  That's great.  I think the more extreme your POV, the more deeply it shows your love of music!  And this is the common thread that links every person on this board, ya gotta be a music-lover 1st & foremost to even be here!!  Group-hug!!!;) 

post #679 of 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hijodelbrx View Post
 

Don't want to get contentious either (Don't wanna fight!;) but.....regardless whether you like his music or not, Pat Metheny is as intelligent, complex, and a true virtuoso of his instrument as ANY, Jazz or whatever genre, musician that's played music, period.  I don't even like a lot of what he's done, but the dude's a colossal talent, can't be denied.  I'm not sure I'd even call his music Jazz at this point.  I mean, just 'cause a band plays instrumentals and improvises doesn't automatically make it Jazz, right?   I'm seeing some pretty extreme points of view on this thread.  That's great.  I think the more extreme your POV, the more deeply it shows your love of music!  And this is the common thread that links every person on this board, ya gotta be a music-lover 1st & foremost to even be here!!  Group-hug!!!;) 


Thanks man, good positive post! 

post #680 of 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
 

Sorry, did not mean to jump on you.  Glad you understand my point.  To me, take away his 10-15% of rock/smooth contemp and the rest is really an avant garde/free realm type of jazz.    Like Chick and Miles, Pat Metheny discovered and created careers for many jazz musicians, most notably Antonio Sanchez who I think is the greatest living drummer under age 40.  I think, too, if you ask todays modern jazz kings like Jason Moran, Chris Potter, Brad Mehldau or Christian McBride I think they WOULD wholeheartedly agree that Metheny was every bit in the genius category of a Chick or Miles.  Heck, even ask the older guys like Dave Holland, Gary Burton or Jack Dejohnette, or the late Michael Brecker....same thing. 

 

His two  most recent releases with Unity Band are both very different type of ensembles and this is what I like.  Like the first release is a rawer stripped down feel to it and the second is a larger vaster more epic sized ensemble of music.  Hard to explain but very purposeful. I am excited to see what he will possibly do with a 3rd release.  Every song, every note each phrase every release has a purpose.  Always moving, never standing still or making records just to make records.  That's what I like.

 

Anyway, don't wanna argue, just explaining my point.  Cheers!


 Hey Spyro, no offense was taken and it was obvious you (nor I) were not being argumentative.....no worries brother.

 

Of all the names you suggested above I can agree that Brad Mehldau and Jack Dejohnette are truly spectacular.  IMO however they have surpassed Metheny although perhaps influenced by him at one time or another.

 

Consider all of this discussion a matter of personal opinion and as a conversation .... never as an argument :beerchug:

post #681 of 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinto View Post
 


I find Pat Metheny´s sound in general boring, it does nothing for me..like Robert Schumann I can´t help it, it goes in and out and doesn´t stick..   It´s a matter of taste, simple.

 

´Short sighted´ is a rather meaningless expression in this context because it is only an expressing of your admitted bias, with which I sympathise completely I might add..

 

Personally I can´t stand people who dislike Glenn Gould, I will have nothing to do with such people, they are dangerous people :D

It took me a while to appreciate Glenn but i'll never forget the thing that changed my mind about him. It was this video - the part here he steps away from the piano and walks to the window. He must of been such an impressive performer. I can only imagine seeing him play in a small room, it would be something to behold. 

 

post #682 of 683

I have many of Metheny's releases and must admit that there is a sameness to the sound that I too find boring at times.  Very talented guy, but I kind of burned out on hist sound.

post #683 of 683

Hopefully it is now time to put the Pat Metheny debate behind us (for the record while I don't really care for The Pat Metheny Group I do really enjoy almost all of Metheny's recordings - check out "80/81" - a great JAZZ recording and another recording featuring the late, great Charlie Haden)

 

 

Now let's talk about two classic recordings that have had only passing mention so far in this killer thread.

 

First up is Benny Carter's 1961 recording "Further Definitions". This recording is generally regarded as a stone cold classic and rightfully so. It features an all star cast playing some Benny Carter's finest arrangements and Carter is one of jazz's all time top arrangers. Give it a listen:

 

 

The second recording is also from the Impulse label and once again is widely regarded as a stone cold classic and (again) rightfully so. Another recording with an all star cast and fantastic arrangements by a great arranger. Like the Carter recording above this one is also from 1961, making 1961 a great year for jazz. I'm talking about Oliver Nelson's great, great "The Blues and the Abstract Truth". Listen and be amazed.

 

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