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On a mission to like jazz - Page 17

post #241 of 2137

I don't want to take derail this thread as it is great service to young and old listeners who have been listening to jazz for a long time or just getting started.  Some new artists have been pointed out to me here.  And, I agree, what is considered traditional now was not at the time.  That applies to a lot of things in society.  However, we can't just lump all jazz into one category so we have to use terms like traditional, modern, etc.

 

You were the one that said "Now why on earth would anyone want to do that?".  That's a rigid statement.  There's room for exploring new types of music.  "No offense to the music" means that you are not giving an opinion on whether the music is bad or good or you don't mind the links.  The two parts of your reply are not related so I'm responding to the first part.  Taking a break is literally taking a break.  In order to listen to what is new you have to take a break from one's normal listening habits or genres.  That's how I set up my post as the music wasn't the traditional style of jazz, but more modern and possibly not for everyone.  Maybe I should have said, "Here's something different".  In the end, your reply was not necessary and did not add anything to my post or the thread.  That's not to say you haven't been a major part of the thread.  I just felt the rigidity in your first reply necessitated a rebuttal.  But, like I said, lets keep this thread on track.  Maybe there was some sarcasm in your original reply that I didn't get.  But unless someone knows you or uses a happy face that cannot easily be determined.   

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline View Post
 

I'm confused. Didn't I write "No offense meant to the music you posted."?

 

And by the way, Be-bop, the music that Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie introduced back the 1940s, was not considered to be "traditional" jazz back when it was first played. In fact this radical music, as it was called at the time, really turned jazz on its ear. It is only 70 years later that Charlie Parker and be-bop are considered "traditional" jazz. Time has a funny way of taking the edge off of most things. For real traditional jazz I suggest:


Essential listening.

post #242 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaTou069 View Post
 

 

I'm all for a open mind too here... But I have to say, although I highly appreciate all these for me new Artists to discover thanks to posts in this thread, the OP is called on a mission to like Jazz. 

I highly doubt that people new to Jazz will start liking it by starting with some free Jazz. 

 

I always try to show to my gf some Jazz that she might like, but I always fail. Even with Take Five


Look I would really appreciate it if you took the time to read the entire thread. I've already stated several times that I will respect all the recommendations made in this thread by other member, regardless of how far from jazz they may be (and there have been several very marginal recommendations posted - and I'm not going to list them - out of respect). But I also stated that I will do my best to bring this thread back onto solid jazz footing.

 

And who are you to say that jazz newbie will not find that really enjoy free jazz? Unfortunately most people find that music with even the slightest hint of atonality to be a turnoff but not ALL people. It is for those rare people that I post these free jazz recommendations. Besides which I started a new thread devoted to free jazz so as not to have to post those recommendations on this thread.

 

And finally most of my recommendations posted on this thread have NOT been free jazz but rather both past and present day mainstream jazz, such as this one:

 

Taken from Thelonious Monk Live at the It Club

post #243 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNBC View Post

 

I don't want to take derail this thread as it is great service to young and old listeners who have been listening to jazz for a long time or just getting started.  Some new artists have been pointed out to me here.  And, I agree, what is considered traditional now was not at the time.  That applies to a lot of things in society.  However, we can't just lump all jazz into one category so we have to use terms like traditional, modern, etc.

 

You were the one that said "Now why on earth would anyone want to do that?".  That's a rigid statement.  There's room for exploring new types of music.  "No offense to the music" means that you are not giving an opinion on whether the music is bad or good or you don't mind the links.  The two parts of your reply are not related so I'm responding to the first part.  Taking a break is literally taking a break.  In order to listen to what is new you have to take a break from one's normal listening habits or genres.  That's how I set up my post as the music wasn't the traditional style of jazz, but more modern and possibly not for everyone.  Maybe I should have said, "Here's something different".  In the end, your reply was not necessary and did not add anything to my post or the thread.  That's not to say you haven't been a major part of the thread.  I just felt the rigidity in your first reply necessitated a rebuttal.  But, like I said, lets keep this thread on track.  Maybe there was some sarcasm in your original reply that I didn't get.  But unless someone knows you or uses a happy face that cannot easily be determined.   

Sorry about that. As you state I was trying to be funny/sarcastic. And perhaps a little smiley face would have helped. :frown:

 

I find it rather amazing that with one member (BaTou069) I'm defending my broad taste in all things jazz, especially free jazz, while with another member (WNBC) I'm being accused of being close minded. Go figure :confused_face(1):

post #244 of 2137

Then that's my bad as I only check in every couple days with this thread so I don't know the different personalities of the posters.  Some people I know are being funny and sarcastic without the emoticons but we haven't crossed paths yet.   In this situation I incorrectly read your post at face value.  Why?  Because there are all spectrums of opinions on head-fi so my interpretation was literal.  Now I know.  I am not one to use emoticons in my daily life but on Head-fi it's almost necessary because a lot of the time we are cracking jokes and nobody can tell from the words themselves whether or not we are being sarcastic.  My avatar is either something really religious or humorous.  The latter of course.  I would have smiled at your original post but I didn't have the proper context.  

 

You don't have to defend your broad tastes to me.  I'm ready to pounce with Persian jazz when the troops are ready.  I started off in more modern styles of jazz then worked my way backwards to the classics.  In some ways that is better for those of us that didn't grow up with jazz.  Starting off with Coltrane would have been too heavy for me.  Now that I'm older I can truly appreciate his works.  

 

Ok, you're on my radar.  I'll be looking for you broad suggestions and I'll try to keep up with this thread.  :beerchug:

 

Sorry to the rest of you that probably have been bored with our discussion.  I promise not to derail as much in the future.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline View Post
 

Sorry about that. As you state I was trying to be funny/sarcastic. And perhaps a little smiley face would have helped. :frown:

I find it rather amazing that with one member (BaTou069) I'm defending my broad taste in all things jazz, especially free jazz, while with another member (WNBC) I'm being accused of being close minded. Go figure :confused_face(1):


Edited by WNBC - 1/29/14 at 8:11am
post #245 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline View Post
 


Look I would really appreciate it if you took the time to read the entire thread. I've already stated several times that I will respect all the recommendations made in this thread by other member, regardless of how far from jazz they may be (and there have been several very marginal recommendations posted - and I'm not going to list them - out of respect). But I also stated that I will do my best to bring this thread back onto solid jazz footing.

 

And who are you to say that jazz newbie will not find that really enjoy free jazz? Unfortunately most people find that music with even the slightest hint of atonality to be a turnoff but not ALL people. It is for those rare people that I post these free jazz recommendations. Besides which I started a new thread devoted to free jazz so as not to have to post those recommendations on this thread.

 

And finally most of my recommendations posted on this thread have NOT been free jazz but rather both past and present day mainstream jazz, such as this one:

 

Taken from Thelonious Monk Live at the It Club

Chill Bro :)

 

I did read this thread from the beginning. Actually I was one of the first who replied to your first post here, saying how awsome your huge list ist. I do like Jazz and listen to it a lot. 

My GF is the one who should read this thread lol, but she has no intentions to like Jazz, she's all for Pearl Jam or Damien Rice.

 

And who am I to say that jazz newbie will not find that really enjoy free jazz? Well, the one who is trying to get his GF into a mission to like Jazz :)

But it's one thing to convert people to like jazz who didn't like it before, or to recommend some jazz to people who are really interested into getting started into this genre.

 

So to my understanding, this thread is truly about the second one. My GF is the first one.  So sorry.

 

I have to say, that I kind of started with Johnny Hammond and with Charlie Christian, I liked the funky rhythm and the solos of Hammond.

Charlie Christian is very different, another era. 

I started to listen to him, since it's simpler guitar jazz and I started to play guitar then :)

 

 


Edited by BaTou069 - 1/29/14 at 8:27am
post #246 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNBC View Post

Ok, you're on my radar.  I'll be looking for you broad suggestions and I'll try to keep up with this thread.  :beerchug:

 

Sorry to the rest of you that probably have been bored with our discussion.  I promise not to derail as much in the future.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaTou069 View Post
 

Chill Bro :)

 

I did read this thread from the beginning. Actually I was one of the first who replied to your first post here, saying how awsome your huge list ist. I do like Jazz and listen to it a lot. 

My GF is the one who should read this thread lol, but she has no intentions to like Jazz, she's all for Pearl Jam or Damien Rice.

 

And who am I to say that jazz newbie will not find that really enjoy free jazz? Well, the one who is trying to get his GF into a mission to like Jazz :)

But it's one thing to convert people to like jazz who didn't like it before, or to recommend some jazz to people who are really interested into getting started into this genre.

 

So to my understanding, this thread is truly about the second one. My GF is the first one.  So sorry.

 

I have to say, that I kind of started with Johnny Hammond and with Charlie Christian, I liked the funky rhythm and the solos of Hammond.

Charlie Christian is very different, another era. 

I started to listen to him, since it's simpler guitar jazz and I started to play guitar then :)

 

 

Glad we got that all cleared up :beyersmile:

 

Now let's go listen to some jazz!

 

By the way BaTou069 I again recommend that you check out the link I posted for that very funny and apropos article from The Onion: http://www.theonion.com/articles/fivedisc-jazz-anthology-still-unopened,468/

post #247 of 2137
I searched and there has been a recommendation already for Waltz for Debby with Bill Evans which was live at the Village Vanguard.  
There's also Waltz for Debby with Monica Zetterlund and Bill Evans that is also very, very good.  
 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Waltz-Debby-Monica-Zetterlund/dp/B000TM0JEQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391014441&sr=8-1&keywords=MONICA+ZETTERLUND+BILL+EVANS

post #248 of 2137

So far this thread has been filled with many, many great recommendations for jazz musicians and music and I'd like to change things up a bit and throw in a recommendation for some essential books about jazz.

 

The History of Jazz - Ted Gioia

A very readable and enjoyable book which covers all the basics and then some. I recommend this book for anyone interested in getting a very good overview of the history of jazz.

 

Jazz - Gary Giddins & Scott DeVeaux

This book is a monster and goes much deeper into the nitty gritty of jazz then Gioia does. Includes lots of musical references and very detailed analysis of many seminal jazz recordings. Recommended for those interested in getting a really solid education in jazz and its history, in other words not for the faint of heart :beyersmile:

 

Both of these books are available as ebooks although the Giddins book is only available as a PDF. I don't know if either book is available in other languages besides English.

post #249 of 2137

Thanks!  I have not read any books on jazz.  I need this education.  It's one thing to hear the great works but a deeper appreciation will come from some historical context.  

Any jazz documentaries you can suggest would be great as well. 

 

 

Quote:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline View Post
 

So far this thread has been filled with many, many great recommendations for jazz musicians and music and I'd like to change things up a bit and throw in a recommendation for some essential books about jazz.

 

The History of Jazz - Ted Gioia

A very readable and enjoyable book which covers all the basics and then some. I recommend this book for anyone interested in getting a very good overview of the history of jazz.

 

Jazz - Gary Giddins & Scott DeVeaux

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
This book is a monster and goes much deeper into the nitty gritty of jazz then Gioia does. Includes lots of musical references and very detailed analysis of many seminal jazz recordings. Recommended for those interested in getting a really solid education in jazz and its history, in other words not for the faint of heart :beyersmile:

 

Both of these books are available as ebooks although the Giddins book is only available as a PDF. I don't know if either book is available in other languages besides English.

 

 

post #250 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline View Post
 

Sorry about that. As you state I was trying to be funny/sarcastic. And perhaps a little smiley face would have helped. :frown:

 

I find it rather amazing that with one member (BaTou069) I'm defending my broad taste in all things jazz, especially free jazz, while with another member (WNBC) I'm being accused of being close minded. Go figure :confused_face(1):

 

 

That's so funny.

A friend of mine has accused me of being closed minded.

He likes Fusion, which I don't really care for.

 But I like "more traditional" jazz (i.e. pre - Fusion era jazz).....which he doesn't really care for.

 

For some weird reason this makes me the closed minded one. Go figure......:confused_face_2:

post #251 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

 

That's so funny.

A friend of mine has accused me of being closed minded.

He likes Fusion, which I don't really care for.

 But I like "more traditional" jazz (i.e. pre - Fusion era jazz).....which he doesn't really care for.

 

For some weird reason this makes me the closed minded one. Go figure......:confused_face_2:

I don't care for Rap when it has offensive lyrics like, "I'll beat the Schitt out of your amp" or "Can I hit you up with a Silver cable?"

post #252 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

I don't care for Rap when it has offensive lyrics like, "I'll beat the Schitt out of your amp" or "Can I hit you up with a Silver cable?"

 

I agree.

No wonder today's youth are so messed up.

I find those lyrics degrading to amplifiers and they also objectify cables.

 

BTW, I think my friend and I are basically two different flavours of Jazz Snobs.

We like what we like and dislike what we don't like.

And the other guy is always wrong.

post #253 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

 

That's so funny.

A friend of mine has accused me of being closed minded.

He likes Fusion, which I don't really care for.

 But I like "more traditional" jazz (i.e. pre - Fusion era jazz).....which he doesn't really care for.

 

For some weird reason this makes me the closed minded one. Go figure......:confused_face_2:

 

What annoys me is those that feel jazz doesn't exist post (about) 1980.  Like when someone asks for recommendations 99% of the choices are from recordings 40-50 years ago?  Traditional jazz is still made today.   Sort of like if someone asked for rock reccomendations and you only cited 1970's "classic" rock.  Perhaps this is where your friend is coming from?

post #254 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

What annoys me is those that feel jazz doesn't exist post (about) 1980.  Like when someone asks for recommendations 99% of the choices are from recordings 40-50 years ago?  Traditional jazz is still made today.   Sort of like if someone asked for rock reccomendations and you only cited 1970's "classic" rock.  Perhaps this is where your friend is coming from?

Well I do like Roy Hargrove, Sophie Milman, Jane Monheit, Wynton Marsalis, Terence Blanchard, Tony Williams Quintet........to name a few.
I just don't like Fusion.
Edited by Chris J - 1/29/14 at 7:51pm
post #255 of 2137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

I agree.

No wonder today's youth are so messed up.

I find those lyrics degrading to amplifiers and they also objectify cables.

 

BTW, I think my friend and I are basically two different flavours of Jazz Snobs.

We like what we like and dislike what we don't like.

And the other guy is always wrong.

But do you like contemporary atonal jazz?

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