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The FiiO X1 Discussion and Help and Support Thread |192K/24B|100mW | LO | inline remote - Page 111

post #1651 of 7658

Taylor Swift-Shake It Off, is sounding nice on the X1 :)

(using ATH-A900Xs)


Edited by PurpleAngel - 8/24/14 at 3:11pm
post #1652 of 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by francopro View Post

An amp doesn't just add more power to a dap, it also add a couple of effects to the sound such as more details, clarity, bass and a wider soundstage. It's like getting 2D to 3D , an amp can completely change the sound quality to makes it better

 

I was just going to let this go - but it's sending the wrong message.  An amp (in reality) is changing one (or more) of five things:

 - current

 - voltage

 - frequency change either via hardware EQ controls (like bass boost, or tone controls), or adding it's own signature (eg if the amp has a warm signature by design)

 - impedance (which in turn can affect frequency)

 - avoiding the DAP's amp stage if the DAP has a line-out feature which allows it

 

An amp doesn't necessarily change "more details, clarity, bass, and wider soundstage".  It's not going to add those things if the DAP is already perfectly capable of driving the intended headphones with the required voltage, current, and impedance.

 

Given that the X1 already has a less than one ohm impedance - you shouldn't need an add on amp to correct impedance related issues (hiss) with really sensitive IEMs.  And unless you're intent on adding hardware EQ, or driving headphones that genuinely require more current/voltage (eg fender f4i's LCD2), or intentionally avoiding the X1's amp stage (ie adding your own preferred colouration) - then an amp will do exactly what it's designed to do (increase the current/voltage to make the signal stronger - louder).

 

Oh - one other thing an amp can assist with is providing more power to avoid clipping (if the DAP is weak on power with a particular headphone).

 

I would challenge anyone that hears magical increases in "detail, clarity, bass and soundstage" with a headphone that is easy to drive (ie most IEMs, plus a lot of portable headphones with high sensitivity and low impedance) to actually perform a properly (ie with an SPL meter) volume matched blind test. I guarantee a lot of people would be surprised.

 

Personally - I'm looking forward to using the X1 solely with IEMs as a very portable option (no amp).

 

Edited - spelling

post #1653 of 7658
I'm pretty much using my X3 for that purpose Brooko, my X5 is the portable brick. I really should find a mid range IEM that suits my sound sig tastes. I'm still tempted to pick up something to use as a transport for my car.
post #1654 of 7658

@Brooko : So what is a consequent action of those five thing that amp is capable to change?  Why couldn't it enhance capability of the hardware source which already provides it? 

 

I'm in no way claiming to be an audiophile; got into headphones about 7-8 months ago (as part of doing reviews of accessories for Android sites and being asked to review headphones).  I do have level of volume comfort I test with and without an amp, and I can clearly hear a brighter sound which gives a perception of more details and sometime opens the soundstage (perhaps, part of perception as well).  I can also hear more rumbling in low end, etc.  Just saying this in general.  I never really used amp until got a review sample of E11k a few weeks ago, and it really opened my eye and ears testing with higher quality sources like X5 of AP100, and using IEMs like ATH-IM03, W40, UE900s, etc.  The same with different headphone cables.  Using silver plated OFC replacement cables, with either IM03 or W40, really brightens up the sound in comparison to stock OFC cable.

 

... now that I thought more about it, when I use amp connected to HO - I don't hear as many changes, versus connecting to LO where I'm comparing now built in amp to external amp (with built-in amp disabled from LO).

 

... I guess I'm answering my own questions lol!!!  So, due to a compact size of a DAP where you can't have as much filtering components such as caps, etc., using external dedicated amp while bypassing internal DAP's amp - you are creating a modular sound system with such enhancement :)


Edited by twister6 - 8/24/14 at 4:06pm
post #1655 of 7658

I think volume without distortion is what makes the difference.  Like it or not most kids don’t give a damn about losing their hearing.  I remember buzzing in my ears for days after Dead Kennedy's and others.  My moto is use it while you got it.

post #1656 of 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by twister6 View Post
 

@Brooko : So what is a consequent action of those five thing that amp is capable to change?  Why couldn't it enhance capability of the hardware source which already provides it? 

 

As I suggested above - if the changes adjust the frequency response (eg hardware eq, or impedance change) then the output will sound different.  If your aim is to do that - then by all means use an amp. Personally - if I need to change the freq I'll use the equaliser rather than carry the bulk on an amp around with me.  And as stated before, the X1 is under 1 ohm, so the need for correcting impedance is unlikely - so really speaking needing an amp depends on whether the headphones will be well driven.  Some harder to drive custom IEMs, of some full sized cans may require an amp.  A lot of IEMs/cans are not going to need one with the X1 - especially given it's target audience (at the medium-to-lower end of the market).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by twister6 View Post
 

I'm in no way claiming to be an audiophile; got into headphones about 7-8 months ago (as part of doing reviews of accessories for Android sites and being asked to review headphones).

 

Don't worry - I'm not an audiophile.  The gear is there so that I can enhance my appreciation of the music.  The music is what is most important to me.  I've spent far more on new music in the last couple of years than I have on headphones/dacs/amps/daps etc.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by twister6 View Post
 

I do have level of volume comfort I test with and without an amp, and I can clearly hear a brighter sound which gives a perception of more details and sometime opens the soundstage (perhaps, part of perception as well).  I can also hear more rumbling in low end, etc.  Just saying this in general.  I never really used amp until got a review sample of E11k a few weeks ago, and it really opened my eye and ears testing with higher quality sources like X5 of AP100, and using IEMs like ATH-IM03, W40, UE900s, etc.

 

How do you match the volume between add on amp and straight out of the DAP when you compare?  If you're doing it by ear - then it's not accurate.  The only way to do it is by use of an SPL meter with a constant tone, or by measuring voltage.  I use an SPL meter for all my comparisons now.  Guess what - most of the formerly perceived differences disappear when the volumes are matched.  When I first started reviewing I was also under the impression that an amp added all the "good things" so many people objectively talk about (soundstage, clarity, detail, bass etc ad nauseum).  Guess what definitely can change your perception.  0.5-1dB change in volume.  Louder sounds better to us.  If you have one device louder than the other - then the louder one will virtually always sound better.  It's how we are wired.  Properly match, and those differences disappear.

 

Now I'm not against amping - far from it.  I've owned higher impedance sources with low impedance headphones - and experienced hiss due to improper damping.  Easiest way to change it - low impedance amp.  I've also used underpowered sources, and wanted to drive less sensitive cans - again, this is where an amp is invaluable.

 

But for the amount of comments about the immediate "magical" advantages of an amp - let's just suggest that most people making the claims (with headphones that don't need additional amping) - probably don't have the two sources volume matched. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by twister6 View Post
 

The same with different headphone cables.  Using silver plated OFC replacement cables, with either IM03 or W40, really brightens up the sound in comparison to stock OFC cable.

 

Interesting - I've tried different headphone cables with full sized cans (DT880, K70x) - blind tested I couldn't tell a difference.  Of course I'm definitely tin-eared, so I'm OK with that.  Let's leave it at that though - last thing I want to do is derail this thread with a cable debate ;).

 

Suggest we leave it at that - if you want to drop me a PM, please do so.  I guess I won't get my chance with the X1 for another few weeks yet - but I am definitely looking forward to it!

post #1657 of 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by francopro View Post

You are understating the use of an amp on head fi !

You sir need to chill and enjoy your music more. Seriously.....

Oh I hope I don't get banned for that statement
post #1658 of 7658

I'm like 75% sure francopro was joking....

post #1659 of 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taveren View Post

You sir need to chill and enjoy your music more. Seriously.....

Oh I hope I don't get banned for that statement
Which is why once I refurb some iPod minis it's all music. Still got like 5 albums to buy. FLAC ftw.
On topic. The X1 is what I love about my 3 iPod minis and iPod Nano, but better. I mean better amp/Dac, plays FLAC AND ALAC. The wheel, and the line Out. Too bad it won't play my E1. Meh.
Edited by BWAS1000 - 8/24/14 at 6:19pm
post #1660 of 7658
Thread Starter 

about the accessories for X1, there will have

 

in the box:

 

1, silicon case (black)

 

2, protective film ( 3, one is already on the screen )

 

3, USB cable ( for charge and data transfer with PC/MAC )

 

4, 3 stickers.( similar as 

 

individual accessories:

 

1, bundle kits ( similar with HS6)

 

2, Clear case ( similar with HS11)

 

3, Leather case ( similar with HS9)

 

4, Stand kits for car ( new , let you connect your X1 with your car audio ).

 

5, An docking desk amp ( in the future , similar with E09K ) , it can be used in our new DAP too.

 

6, Special LO cable ( we used 11pin micro USB socket so the line out will be install both in the headphone out socket and the micro USB socket ), it can be used in our new DAP too.

 

7, Armband. ( for sport )

 

Guys, you can see it is not easy for us to satisfy our user but we will try our best to make our user happy. 

post #1661 of 7658

It's noticed and quite appreciated!

post #1662 of 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

about the accessories for X1, there will have

 

in the box:

 

1, silicon case (black)

 

2, protective film ( 3, one is already on the screen )

 

3, USB cable ( for charge and data transfer with PC/MAC )

 

4, 3 stickers.( similar as 

 

individual accessories:

 

1, bundle kits ( similar with HS6)

 

2, Clear case ( similar with HS11)

 

3, Leather case ( similar with HS9)

 

4, Stand kits for car ( new , let you connect your X1 with your car audio ).

 

5, An docking desk amp ( in the future , similar with E09K ) , it can be used in our new DAP too.

 

6, Special LO cable ( we used 11pin micro USB socket so the line out will be install both in the headphone out socket and the micro USB socket ), it can be used in our new DAP too.

 

7, Armband. ( for sport )

 

Guys, you can see it is not easy for us to satisfy our user but we will try our best to make our user happy. 

quite satisfied over here. Dunno when I'll buy but I will.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
post #1663 of 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post
 

about the accessories for X1, there will have

 

in the box:

 

1, silicon case (black)

........

1, bundle kits ( similar with HS6)

........

6, Special LO cable ( we used 11pin micro USB socket so the line out will be install both in the headphone out socket and the micro USB socket ), it can be used in our new DAP too.

 

 

Awesome!!!  Thank you James!!!

 

Just one comment, PLEASE reconsider that black silicone case - it's a lint magnet and you can't see led light when charging the unit.  The gray one you provided with X5 was smoother, not as sticky, and had enough transparency to see charging/power led.

 

Regarding bundle kit, will it be designed for different amps or E11K primary?

 

Special LO cable - that would be fantastic!  Just one suggestion if you can make microUSB connector and 3.5mm connector angled so you can put the bundle in your pocket with E11K volume dial up?  Maybe even include an angle adapter (3.5mm male angled with the other side 3.5mm female) for straight headphone plugs so when placed in the pocket E11k volume is facing up and headphone wire is easier to connect.

 

These are just suggestions, and your hard work is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

post #1664 of 7658

I must admit, I'm quite interested in the car stand kit myself.  I've been playing around with the idea of getting one of these as a transport for my car, which has an obscenely long aux cord...  why I bought a 25' aux cord is beyond me, I musta been tired at the time.  I should remedy that...

post #1665 of 7658
That's a great list of accessories. I would like to know which amps the stacking kit will work with!
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