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AUDEZE LCD XC - Page 6

post #76 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

Yes I'll be trying to get a pair of XC to listen to from Justin at headamp, but unfortunately I won't be able to hear the X alongside it as well.  I'm not trying to be an ass about dismissing other people's impressions because they don't fit my needs, but I do wish some were broken down a bit more simply with more comparable terminology.  Hopefully it's as far away from 6moons style as possible!  In this case you can say one presentation of the bass is more real than another, but what about it makes it more realistic?

Oy vey...I was having a great day until you mentioned 6Moons.  The most useless, over the top reviews.  This Sirhan Sirhan guy (just kidding!!!, but he murders the English language with his drivel) who does the reviews is unsufferable and rather than being edified, one comes out more confused and flustered having made the attempt to decipher what in the name of the world he is talking about.  I make it a point not to read any of his reviews anymore.  Waste of time.  Four pages of the history of the company, and less than one page of incomprehensible pablum.  Oy vey!!!

post #77 of 1791

Leesure mentioned 6moons first.  :D

post #78 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesure View Post


 I don't share your opinion of the darkness of the treble of the earlier Audez'e offerings.

 
 
Gosh, I dunno...comments like "It's not good when the mids, lows and highs are all great but no treble and sound staging with it sounding sucked out and shelved."

You toss your opinions out as facts and dismiss those who disagree...those are the hallmarks of someone trolling, in my experience.

 

It is a fact. The treble (upper mids) are sucked out and the soundstage is quite small (at least in LCD-2, LCD-3 is a bit better in this).

 

The LCD-2 & LCD-3 are dark headphones (although they have little bit of air), but the upper mids are totally scooped out, there´s no question about that. Some people may like this sound, some don´t. Personally the upper mids are too way much scooped out, so really hoping that the X or XC would improve this.


Edited by MetalElvis - 11/24/13 at 10:20am
post #79 of 1791
You say the LCD-2/3 are dark and scooped out. I say the HE-6 are thin and the HD800 are brittle and bright. Perspective is everything.

I've said at least three times in this thread that the XC's tilt more to the HE-6/HD800 side that any previous Audeze offering. If you remain unclear, try them yourself.
post #80 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesure View Post

You say the LCD-2/3 are dark and scooped out. I say the HE-6 are thin and the HD800 are brittle and bright. Perspective is everything.
 

 

I´m not saying it. It´s a fact. Haven´t heard the HE-6, but I have heard HE-500, that one sounded pretty ok, not overly bright at all. Kinda fat sound, similar to LCD-2 but with more upper mids. HD 800 indeed is a bit bright headphone, but not soooo much, almost flat, only overly bright if you come from the scooped LCD-2/3.

post #81 of 1791

There's no scooped out upper mids on the LCD2.  They're on the warmer side of neutral, but still pretty neutral.  It's the treble region that has issues.  Passing it off as a universal truth comes off as confrontational.  I think the bigger problem is that there's too many headphones out there with too much upper mids and treble.

post #82 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalElvis View Post
 

 

I´m not saying it. It´s a fact. Haven´t heard the HE-6, but I have heard HE-500, that one sounded pretty ok, not overly bright at all. Kinda fat sound, similar to LCD-2 but with more upper mids. HD 800 indeed is a bit bright headphone, but not soooo much, almost flat, only overly bright if you come from the scooped LCD-2/3.

LCD-2 and HD-800 are the polar opposites...I haven't heard two headphones sound so different...night and day...and yet, both are great headphones.  I must say that going from HD800 to LCD-2, the LCD-2s sound like mud; conversely, going from the LCD-2 to the HD-800, the HD-800 can make your ears bleed (piercing treble) once the ear adjusts; after a couple of minutes, then it's back to the HD800s sounding great again.

post #83 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

There's no scooped out upper mids on the LCD2.  They're on the warmer side of neutral, but still pretty neutral.  It's the treble region that has issues.  Passing it off as a universal truth comes off as confrontational.  I think the bigger problem is that there's too many headphones out there with too much upper mids and treble.

 

 

 

Oh really, LCD-2/3 neutral? Give me a break. They are way wayyyyy on the warmer side. The 2k - 6k are so scooped you wouldn´t believe. It is the universal truth, sorry but it is. Just look at the measurements. I´m not saying they sound bad, it´s a very cozy non-fatiguing sound and I like it myself sometimes. But for any kind of accurate studio work, mixing, mastering… the LCD-2/3 are very difficult.

 

Also one thing I should mention, because of the scooped upper mids and treble of the LCD-2/3, most people feel the need to push more volume to hear those frequencies better (more detail). And that´s when it gets dangerous for the ears, because the bass is strong with LCD-2/3s and bass with loud volumes is the one element that will give you ear damage. So be careful!

 

And there aren´t too many headphones with too much upper mids and treble, just few. Gimme a break dude!

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by figaro69 View Post
 

LCD-2 and HD-800 are the polar opposites...I haven't heard two headphones sound so different...night and day...and yet, both are great headphones.  I must say that going from HD800 to LCD-2, the LCD-2s sound like mud; conversely, going from the LCD-2 to the HD-800, the HD-800 can make your ears bleed (piercing treble) once the ear adjusts; after a couple of minutes, then it's back to the HD800s sounding great again.

 

 

Agreed. Night and day, but HD 800 are more accurate and truthful.

post #84 of 1791

Please stop referencing this so-called 'universal truth.'  Also, what measurements are you referencing?  Inner-fidelity?  Headroom?  Just in case you didn't already know (which I'm sure you did because you're the expert in this topic)  a recession in the upper-midrange for the compensated graphs on those measurements is along the lines of neutral, it's due to the particular compensation used.  The HD800 is plateau'd in the upper-midrange and treble just as much as the LCD2 is shelved in the upper-midrange and treble.

 

The market for audiophile headphones features a lot of cans with emphasized upper-midrange or treble to appeal to detail-seeking listeners.  The beyerdynamic line features headphones with strong and prominent treble spikes.  Sennheiser makes brighter full-sized headphones with every waking minute.  Grados are either loved or hated because of their very pronounced upper midrange.  I havn't listened to the D5k or D7k, but I do know the old popular D2000 had a pronounced treble and from what I gather so did its bigger brothers.

 

And don't take this as me trying to defend the LCD2 on neutrality either.  I came away wanting more treble from it, but calling the upper-midrange recessed to the point of being scooped is completely ridiculous.  Its entire midrange is one of the most timbre accurate, smooth and balanced midranges I've ever heard of from a headphone.

post #85 of 1791

re headamp loaner program, sounds interesting. plan to look into this. would love to hear XC in own system prior to any purchase.


Edited by vcoheda - 11/24/13 at 1:14pm
post #86 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

Please stop referencing this so-called 'universal truth.'  Also, what measurements are you referencing?  Inner-fidelity?  Headroom?  Just in case you didn't already know (which I'm sure you did because you're the expert in this topic)  a recession in the upper-midrange for the compensated graphs on those measurements is along the lines of neutral, it's due to the particular compensation used.  The HD800 is plateau'd in the upper-midrange and treble just as much as the LCD2 is shelved in the upper-midrange and treble.

 

The market for audiophile headphones features a lot of cans with emphasized upper-midrange or treble to appeal to detail-seeking listeners.  The beyerdynamic line features headphones with strong and prominent treble spikes.  Sennheiser makes brighter full-sized headphones with every waking minute.  Grados are either loved or hated because of their very pronounced upper midrange.  I havn't listened to the D5k or D7k, but I do know the old popular D2000 had a pronounced treble and from what I gather so did its bigger brothers.

 

And don't take this as me trying to defend the LCD2 on neutrality either.  I came away wanting more treble from it, but calling the upper-midrange recessed to the point of being scooped is completely ridiculous.  Its entire midrange is one of the most timbre accurate, smooth and balanced midranges I've ever heard of from a headphone.

One thing is for sure...when you want treble, the LCD-2 is not your man.  Now, when you want luscious midrange and base, He Tha Man!!!

post #87 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

Please stop referencing this so-called 'universal truth.'  Also, what measurements are you referencing?  Inner-fidelity?  Headroom?  Just in case you didn't already know (which I'm sure you did because you're the expert in this topic)  a recession in the upper-midrange for the compensated graphs on those measurements is along the lines of neutral, it's due to the particular compensation used.  The HD800 is plateau'd in the upper-midrange and treble just as much as the LCD2 is shelved in the upper-midrange and treble.

 

The market for audiophile headphones features a lot of cans with emphasized upper-midrange or treble to appeal to detail-seeking listeners.  The beyerdynamic line features headphones with strong and prominent treble spikes.  Sennheiser makes brighter full-sized headphones with every waking minute.  Grados are either loved or hated because of their very pronounced upper midrange.  I havn't listened to the D5k or D7k, but I do know the old popular D2000 had a pronounced treble and from what I gather so did its bigger brothers.

 

And don't take this as me trying to defend the LCD2 on neutrality either.  I came away wanting more treble from it, but calling the upper-midrange recessed to the point of being scooped is completely ridiculous.  Its entire midrange is one of the most timbre accurate, smooth and balanced midranges I've ever heard of from a headphone.

 

I´m talking about all the measurements I´ve seen, including the ones that came with my LCD-2. So yes, the upper midrange is very scooped and that´s why the average Joe loves these headphones. "Normal people" don´t usually (at first) like flat studio monitors or headphones, because to them they seem bright (at first). They haven´t heard that true flat sound before, ´cause they´ve been listening only the cheaper headphones that are usually darker. So when they hear high end headphones or studio monitors they are usually shocked.

 

It is the universal truth no matter how you try to convince yourself that the LCD-2 are neutral. I´d say most of the headphones out there are dark, because the average Joes like a darker sound more. And yes I´m an expert on this subject, I have lots of experience with headphones and studio monitors. So I know what neutral/flat sound is and what is not. I do professional mixing and mastering for living. And yes, some headphones have some upper midrange boost like the Grados and T1 for example. I like different headphones for different purposes, but mainly I´m looking for that flat natural sound. Sometimes I even grab the LCD-2s to enjoy that lush soft sound. Soft is the right word for LCD-2s.

The only bright headphones from Sennheisers that I´ve heard is the HD 800, but they are much much closer to flat neutral sound than the LCD-2/3. HD 650 is dark, just like the LCD-2/3 (but these are bit more extended in the air department), HD 600 is quite neutral (but it has it´s many flaws), Momentum is dark (mainly because of the overbloated bass).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by figaro69 View Post
 

One thing is for sure...when you want treble, the LCD-2 is not your man.  Now, when you want luscious midrange and base, He Tha Man!!!

 

 

Exactly. Period.


Edited by MetalElvis - 11/24/13 at 2:30pm
post #88 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Please stop referencing this so-called 'universal truth.'  Also, what measurements are you referencing?  Inner-fidelity?  Headroom?  Just in case you didn't already know (which I'm sure you did because you're the expert in this topic)  a recession in the upper-midrange for the compensated graphs on those measurements is along the lines of neutral, it's due to the particular compensation used.  The HD800 is plateau'd in the upper-midrange and treble just as much as the LCD2 is shelved in the upper-midrange and treble.

The market for audiophile headphones features a lot of cans with emphasized upper-midrange or treble to appeal to detail-seeking listeners.  The beyerdynamic line features headphones with strong and prominent treble spikes.  Sennheiser makes brighter full-sized headphones with every waking minute.  Grados are either loved or hated because of their very pronounced upper midrange.  I havn't listened to the D5k or D7k, but I do know the old popular D2000 had a pronounced treble and from what I gather so did its bigger brothers.

And don't take this as me trying to defend the LCD2 on neutrality either.  I came away wanting more treble from it, but calling the upper-midrange recessed to the point of being scooped is completely ridiculous.  Its entire midrange is one of the most timbre accurate, smooth and balanced midranges I've ever heard of from a headphone.

Shhhhh. It's much better to leave those who 'know' the universal truth alone with their delusion.

Yes, to my ears, the LCD-2's feature recessed treble, but calling them 'scooped out' is as hyperbolic as calling the HD800's 'accurate and truthful'.

I guess I'll just have to suffer along being a "normal person".
post #89 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesure View Post


Shhhhh. It's much better to leave those who 'know' the universal truth alone with their delusion.

Yes, to my ears, the LCD-2's feature recessed treble, but calling them 'scooped out' is as hyperbolic as calling the HD800's 'accurate and truthful'.

I guess I'll just have to suffer along being a "normal person".

 

Glad we agree. You call recessed treble, I call scooped out, pretty much the same thing. But stating that "recessed" vs "scooped out" are totally different things, now that´s hyperbolic!

And I didn´t say HD 800 are "accurate and truthful", I said they are "more accurate and truthful than the LCD-2". Big difference, so please don´t put words in my mouth!

post #90 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesure View Post

..hyperbolic as calling the HD800's 'accurate and truthful'.

Actually I don't know any other headphone as true to the source as the HD800's despite it's bright treble (which can be remedied through rabid dog/anax mod or amplification and source picking). 

 

It's why Tyll picked them out as the best headphones for monitoring.

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