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December 2013 Mid-Level DAC Comparison - Page 84  

post #1246 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

Guys, please stay on topic.


 



I'd rather read the Gain Bandwidth discussion than one more post explaining how the poster would do a much better job of testing the DACs than Gary......LOL! smily_headphones1.gif
post #1247 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

Guys, please stay on topic.


 



I'd rather read the Gain Bandwidth discussion than one more post explaining how the poster would do a much better job of testing the DACs than Gary......LOL! smily_headphones1.gif

I think Gary should have compared the GBP of the various DAC's as well...

There, happy now? biggrin.gif
post #1248 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

Guys, please stay on topic.

 

I agree.

 

All dacs sound the same. There.

 

/thread

 

-Daniel

post #1249 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post
 

 

I agree.

 

All dacs sound the same. There.

 

/thread

 

-Daniel

 

All DACs sound the same, no matter what the Gain Bandwidth product of the Op Amps in the filtering section is.

post #1250 of 1331
I hope everyone reading this comparison sees the vast sameness as a red flag showing these results should only be used for Gary, and should not be used for guiding their own purchases.

Truly no offense towards Gary. Also I know Gary has stated this was a personal comparison (ie. only for himself), but people will latch onto anything, even with many warnings.
post #1251 of 1331

Hmmm. Still wondering which of these would offer the most value and musicality to pair with a NAIM integrated amp.

 

You see, I can afford a nice NAIM SuperNait2 now and a cheaper DAC; I can't afford the SN2 and say the $2400 NAIM DAC V1. Down the road perhaps.

 

Of the list below I know the TeddyDAC is probably the best fit for NAIM no doubt. It basically is the V1 without the HP and PRE functions. But I want to save at least $1K over the V1 so it's still too pricey I think :( If it cost as much as the DA8 it would be maybe a shoe-in decision.

 

Did Gary test the Schiit with the Gen2 USB? I forget. But

 

I wish the Ciúnas also had one other input like COAX or optical :(

 

The X-Sabre? No matter the forum or discussion, it does seem like a lot of roads lead back to it. But for some reason I don't sense much enthusiasm around it either.

 

 

Ciúnas DAC (~$775, includes S&H)
Schiit Gungnir USB Gen2 ($849 + S&H)

Matrix X-Sabre ($1099 + S&H)
Yulong DA8 w/ D230 power cord ($1249 + S&H)
Metrum Octave II USB ($1395 + S&H)
TeddyDAC Async USB w/ DIN ($1587 + S&H)


Edited by schneller - 1/9/14 at 5:46pm
post #1252 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

I hope everyone reading this comparison sees the vast sameness as a red flag showing these results should only be used for Gary, and should not be used for guiding their own purchases.

Truly no offense towards Gary. Also I know Gary has stated this was a personal comparison (ie. only for himself), but people will latch onto anything, even with many warnings.

 

 

Funny. You never get pages after pages after pages of these 'friendly disclaimers' when someone claims he's heard a night-and-day-difference in favor of the 2000$ DAC compared to the 1000$ DAC. You may get the pro forma 'ymmv' but thats usually about it. But as soon as someone DARES to do a volume-calibrated listening test where he can actually switch between the products on the fly and claims the differences are negligible all the malevolent and gullible crawl out of their caves and insist on the 'purely subjective' nature of his findings which noone should use as a guide for purchase.

 

... But perhaps I'm wrong and upon proper investigation I would find that you've indeed posted the very same paragraph I just quoted on every single subjective gear comparison ever posted on head-fi! Yeah I bet you have. You're always looking out for the consumers after all!

post #1253 of 1331

^ +1 I too find it hilarious. My only advice to those people is to buy a switch and SPL meter to prove Gary wrong, without any bias or prejudices, but I doubt that is possible for the naysayers because it threatens their ego.

post #1254 of 1331

.


Edited by Barry S - 1/9/14 at 6:34pm
post #1255 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koloth View Post


Funny. You never get pages after pages after pages of these 'friendly disclaimers' when someone claims he's heard a night-and-day-difference in favor of the 2000$ DAC compared to the 1000$ DAC. You may get the pro forma 'ymmv' but thats usually about it. But as soon as someone DARES to do a volume-calibrated listening test where he can actually switch between the products on the fly and claims the differences are negligible all the malevolent and gullible crawl out of their caves and insist on the 'purely subjective' nature of his findings which noone should use as a guide for purchase.

... But perhaps I'm wrong and upon proper investigation I would find that you've indeed posted the very same paragraph I just quoted on every single subjective gear comparison ever posted on head-fi! Yeah I bet you have. You're always looking out for the consumers after all!
I don't post similar things on other review threads. Most review threads aren't comparing 13+ items and finding over half of them identical, though.

I assume people know to use reviews as just another data point, but there are so many posts in this thread indicating this is the only source for their purchase, or that they are adopting this idea that most DACs sound the same, when that isn't the truth for most people.

Also, there are problems with this 'objective' approach, and there are problems with subjective approaches. Assuming one is better than the other is a mistake. Using equal shares of both yields a better decision.
post #1256 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

^ +1 I too find it hilarious. My only advice to those people is to buy a switch and SPL meter to prove Gary wrong, without any bias or prejudices, but I doubt that is possible for the naysayers because it threatens their ego.
And who's to say that switch isn't part of the problem?
post #1257 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post


And who's to say that switch isn't part of the problem?


What problem? Why would the finding that some DACs sound very similar be a problem?

post #1258 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post


What problem? Why would the finding that some DACs sound very similar be a problem?

Good question.
Why, exactly, is that a problem?
I assume they are all striving for neutrality, so is it not surprising that so many sound similar?
post #1259 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post


And who's to say that switch isn't part of the problem?

Because he tested with and without the switch to verify performance.

post #1260 of 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post

.
Cheap shot or no, there is a difference between someone with trained hearing and not. People who can't hear the difference between 128k mp3 and FLAC aren't deaf, they just don't have trained hearing. Someone who can't tell a difference with so many DACs using different chips, different input and output stages, different circuitry layouts, different power supplies, not using trained hearing (or ears, as I said in that post).

My personal experience with some of these DACs shows major differences, but even discarding that, the wildly different constructions dictate they must sound different. Whether you are attuned to those differences or not depends on your experience and interest level in our hobby. Some people don't care beyond sounding good and that is fine. Others push further.
Edited by Maxvla - 1/9/14 at 7:13pm
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