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$999 Calyx M with DXD + DSD, 64GB + SD + µSD storage - Page 54

post #796 of 5502
LINE OUT:
*************
I spoke With Vinnie from RWA. As you know he MOD the AK100/120 to create a REAL Line-out ( and he change the DAC chip).

Here is what he says ;

" ....Calyx do the volume like the AK players (digital volume control). 
 But it is NOT a real line out because the output still goes through the headphone output stage.
 
A real line out CANNOT drive headphones (e.g. 32 ohm load).
 
Same is true with AK players (and AK240) - they say "line out" but it still has a headphone output stage to drive headphones, so not a real line out but something close to that.
"


I am disapointed !! :-((
Edited by bmichels - 2/7/14 at 12:29am
post #797 of 5502

I am getting really confused about this line out thing... in the end, if it sounds good , it doesnt matter if it is LO or PO (max), right?

post #798 of 5502

^ ^

Agree. As long as it sounds good, I'm in.

I think the main purpose of this Calyx M is a portable DAP, so a true line out is just bonus to me.

post #799 of 5502
Yes, people tend to be too demanding and want things their way.
I for one am quite satisfied with what Calyx has to offer. Though I'm still holding on to a small shred of hope that Listrid will come out of the dark and band with Vinnie for a SW that supports HO in the RWAK100/120-S
post #800 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levanter View Post

Though I'm still holding on to a small shred of hope that Listrid will come out of the dark and band with Vinnie for a SW that supports HO in the RWAK100/120-S

 

+1 to this!

Wish this can come true then I will not need to rack my brains any further comparing all those DAPs out there. SW for modded RWAK120-B with dual Wolfson 8741, utilizing the native DSD playback support from 8741 & possibly SW volume adjustment on the DAC side of the audio chain with balanced line-out is the ultimate DAP king.

post #801 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post
 

I am getting really confused about this line out thing... in the end, if it sounds good , it doesnt matter if it is LO or PO (max), right?

Yes, especially in DAPs since the V out of many is very similar to current 2v lo standard of home kit. It all has to do with how transparent the amp stage is. In some designs the amp stage is a longer chain and in others, not so much. Dig V all the way up is usually identical to fixed gain and depending on how the V control is configured can but a non issue even if not at full tilt.

post #802 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

LINE OUT:
*************
I spoke With Vinnie from RWA. As you know he MOD the AK100/120 to create a REAL Line-out ( and he change the DAC chip).

Here is what he says ;

" ....Calyx do the volume like the AK players (digital volume control). 
 But it is NOT a real line out because the output still goes through the headphone output stage.
 
A real line out CANNOT drive headphones (e.g. 32 ohm load).
 
Same is true with AK players (and AK240) - they say "line out" but it still has a headphone output stage to drive headphones, so not a real line out but something close to that.
"


I am disapointed !! :-((

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post
 

I am getting really confused about this line out thing... in the end, if it sounds good , it doesnt matter if it is LO or PO (max), right?

 

I get Vinnie's argument but it strikes me as more of a technical distinction, i.e. one of definitions, than a practical useful distinction. In other words if it can drive a 32 ohm headphone, we are not allowed to call it a line out. 

 

However I believe that the real issue is how clean the signal is. I would like know why a HO that has lower distortion than a LO would be worse rather than better. I don't think that there would be a good answer to that.

 

Plus if the HO has a gain section that is technically designed to optimize the sound from the Sabre DAC, is it really less of a "line out" than a non-optimal direct tap of the DAC chip? 

 

The proof will be in the performance. As I said before, time will tell.


Edited by cooperpwc - 2/7/14 at 3:24am
post #803 of 5502
Your points are good and the answer is obvious. It's not better. But if you are someone who mods EQ , there will be some reason it should be done. I think VINNIE does improve the products he mods . But given if we added our own amp from line out as opposed to his mod the sound change would be minimal at best and not worth the permanent mod. .

Al
post #804 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Your points are good and the answer is obvious. It's not better. But if you are someone who mods EQ , there will be some reason it should be done. I think VINNIE does improve the products he mods . But given if we added our own amp from line out as opposed to his mod the sound change would be minimal at best and not worth the permanent mod. .

Al

I guess all depend how "neutral" is the headphone amp.  The purpose of bypassing it is to avoid any possible coloration provided by the AMP.

 

Interesting will be to get testimorials from peoples who had their own AK100/120 transformed into "line out ONLY" by Vinnie:  did the AK100/120 when amped sounded better after the MOD than before when the phone out was changed into a "strickly" Line-out without AMPS in the path.

post #805 of 5502
The real issue here is a side by side demo of the units at all. I have bought and sold a couple of daps. And it's a dam shame we cannot or atleast I cannot find anyone who has them to listen too before I buy it. Way back when I bought the first dac amp for the iPhone from dap x. That is the company that v moda uses . When they came out with the new version from v moda. I was lucky enough to find a place in NYC . The sound difference was very obvious and I bought the new unit. The big change came from the new low output impedance. Anyway it was cool to hear before you buy.
I owned the ak120 and hdpr10. I sold the ak120 and kept the hdpr10. This was based on sound .

Al
post #806 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post
 

Interesting will be to get testimorials from peoples who had their own AK100/120 transformed into "line out ONLY" by Vinnie:  did the AK100/120 when amped sounded better after the MOD than before when the phone out was changed into a "strickly" Line-out without AMPS in the path.

 

That is interesting. And Vinnie does do good work. However, no matter what the improvement, it won't tell us anything about what we can expect from the Calyx. Vinnie is bypassing the AK amp section. And he is swapping out one DAC chip for another - both Wolfson and both different than the Sabre in the Calyx.

 

We won't know how good the Calyx performs as a line out DAC until we hear it - and make comparisons to other DACs - and also get some third party measurements.

post #807 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Your points are good and the answer is obvious. It's not better. But if you are someone who mods EQ , there will be some reason it should be done. I think VINNIE does improve the products he mods . But given if we added our own amp from line out as opposed to his mod the sound change would be minimal at best and not worth the permanent mod. .


Al
I guess all depend how "neutral" is the headphone amp.  The purpose of bypassing it is to avoid any possible coloration provided by the AMP.

Interesting will be to get testimorials from peoples who had their own AK100/120 transformed into "line out ONLY" by Vinnie:  did the AK100/120 when amped sounded better after the MOD than before when the phone out was changed into a "strickly" Line-out without AMPS in the path.

I recently got my almost-year-old RWAK100 S modded by Vinnie. I can say yes, it most definitely sounds better to me. However since the S mod also includes ch aging of the DAC chip, I'm not quite sure how much the true line out function impacts my SUBJECTIVE observation of SQ improvement
post #808 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by feverfive View Post


I recently got my almost-year-old RWAK100 S modded by Vinnie. I can say yes, it most definitely sounds better to me. However since the S mod also includes ch aging of the DAC chip, I'm not quite sure how much the true line out function impacts my SUBJECTIVE observation of SQ improvement

You'r right.  It is very likely that it is mostly the NEW DAC Chip (plus configuration of the CHIP in ringtone mode) that make the difference, rather than the "bypass of the AMP".  We will never know...;-(

post #809 of 5502
My diy friend modify his ak 100 and ak 120 without changing the dac chip

The sound quality through line out is definetly better than through headphone out

Line out is pure the the sound quality from the dac chip

Headphone out is the sound quality from dac chip and amp section

IMO
post #810 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudi0504 View Post

My diy friend modify his ak 100 and ak 120 without changing the dac chip

The sound quality through line out is definetly better than through headphone out

Line out is pure the the sound quality from the dac chip

Headphone out is the sound quality from dac chip and amp section

IMO

 

GRRRR....   so, iRiver is misleading us ! ?

 

-->  It looks like, we will really need to MOD the AK240 is we want to feed an external AMP in the best conditions !!  ... it will really becomes an uber-expensive DAP !!

 

 

So, i will rather  MOD  the  Calyx M  for real line out.   Much Much BETTER graphical UI and a $999 starting cost  :-)     Vinnie.... HELP with Calyx !!!!


Edited by bmichels - 2/7/14 at 8:18am
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