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$999 Calyx M with DXD + DSD, 64GB + SD + µSD storage - Page 139

post #2071 of 5502

Just doing a comparison of some specs between DX90 and Calyx M.

 

DX90          Channel separation 115db      Dynamic range 119db

 

Calyx M       Channel separation 130db      Dynamic range 114db

 

How is it that the player with a single chip has better channel separation than the one with two ? 

 

Will the difference in dynamic range mean the DX90 has a noticeably quieter background ?

post #2072 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post
 

Just doing a comparison of some specs between DX90 and Calyx M.

 

DX90          Channel separation 115db      Dynamic range 119db

 

Calyx M       Channel separation 130db      Dynamic range 114db

 

How is it that the player with a single chip has better channel separation than the one with two ? 

 

Will the difference in dynamic range mean the DX90 has a noticeably quieter background ?


I don't really understand much from technical data and graphs etc but I have been told many times that it is not the components is used, it is how they are implemented. So we can say, while building M, Calyx probably did a marvelous job.

 

I just wish they could keep their marvelous job in the other aspects of this business :frown:

post #2073 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post


I don't really understand much from technical data and graphs etc but I have been told many times that it is not the components is used, it is how they are implemented. So we can say, while building M, Calyx probably did a marvelous job.

I just wish they could keep their marvelous job in the other aspects of this business frown.gif

The SNR (signal to noise ratio) is the noise floor you see in those graphs versus the signal. This measurement is actually generic in nature, it applies to any signals not just for audio. It emphasizes the difference between what constitutes a recognizable signal versus noise created by the very nature of material used in electronic components (the physics behind them) and electricity racing through those components. According to the electronic designers, the lower the noise floor compared to the signal, the better or the higher the SNR, the better. However when reaching the 100 db mark, it's getting rather quiet at that level hence people say a quiet background.

The other measurement, crosstalk, is the leakage between the two channels. Similarly, the higher the ratio the less leakage between them.

You are right about the implementation. The final measurement from the player is after all the internal components have been selected and assembled. So the rule is if you want to have a chance to a higher output SNR, you should pay attention to the components you introduce in the chain and make sure the weakest links in the design have been addressed.
The analog source to a dac is a place where one has to be careful to choose a high quality op amp in order to keep the SNR level from the dac as high as possible. I also did not address the pcb layout which is also paramount to keeping external or even internal interferences out of the signal path. It's quite challenging building electronic devices when you want to achieve high fidelity.

I hope I did not make it sound complicated.
Edited by musicheaven - 4/4/14 at 11:15pm
post #2074 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post

I suppose you intend to use this with s Hugo and not with M only.

Well it is not only for Hugo. You can have an iDevice linked to the compact wireless adapter with Mini SSD setup giving you a DAP with HD digital out and >=256 GB of storage.
post #2075 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicheaven View Post


The SNR (signal to noise ratio) is the noise floor you see in those graphs versus the signal. This measurement is actually generic in nature, it applies to any signals not just for audio. It emphasizes the difference between what constitutes a recognizable signal versus noise created by the very nature of material used in electronic components (the physics behind them) and electricity racing through those components. According to the electronic designers, the lower the noise floor compared to the signal, the better or the higher the SNR, the better. However when reaching the 100 db mark, it's getting rather quiet at that level hence people say a quiet background.

The other measurement, crosstalk, is the leakage between the two channels. Similarly, the higher the ratio the less leakage between them.

You are right about the implementation. The final measurement from the player is after all the internal components have been selected and assembled. So the rule is if you want to have a chance to a higher output SNR, you should pay attention to the components you introduce in the chain and make sure the weakest links in the design have been addressed.
The analog source to a dac is a place where one has to be careful to choose a high quality op amp in order to keep the SNR level from the dac as high as possible. I also did not address the pcb layout which is also paramount to keeping external or even internal interferences out of the signal path. It's quite challenging building electronic devices when you want to achieve high fidelity.

I hope I did not make it sound complicated.


Well it was rather informative I believe I learned plenty things. Thanks mate ;) At the end it look like Calyx did a nice job. Still DX90 doesn't look bad either, just a different monster.

post #2076 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post


Well it was rather informative I believe I learned plenty things. Thanks mate wink.gif At the end it look like Calyx did a nice job. Still DX90 doesn't look bad either, just a different monster.

That was pretty much my point, to be honest both seem to be great players to listen to music. It's going to be hard choosing one. smily_headphones1.gif
post #2077 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicheaven View Post


That was pretty much my point, to be honest both seem to be great players to listen to music. It's going to be hard choosing one. smily_headphones1.gif


If you value capacity and have enough money, it will be an easy decision. On my side, I value capacity very high but being a poor master student, the money is an issue (that's why I had high hopes for pre order discount).

post #2078 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post


If you value capacity and have enough money, it will be an easy decision. On my side, I value capacity very high but being a poor master student, the money is an issue (that's why I had high hopes for pre order discount).

Yeah I feel your pain, I had the same expectation but you are right once you take all of those into consideration you'll lean towards one more than the other. Hopefully after you graduate and start working and money trickles in, you'll come back here and show us how all those devices perform. wink_face.gif
post #2079 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicheaven View Post

Very good play, a better plan would be to wait until both players are available at the store than pick the one you prefer. smily_headphones1.gif

Now buying the player strictly for SQ, isn't that short sighted if you don't involve other criteria like what you plan to do with it, functions and UI not to mention earphones and headphones you own? Just for example say you compare the players and find out SQ to be better for one player matching your favorite earphones but the other seems to excel with some headphones you use regularly. Which one will you keep?


Just to keep things simple, we look at DAPs so we hear hear the best possible rendering of the music of course with the headphone you have/like. Comparing 2 DAP should have SQ as the 1st primary criteria. If they are on par then other features weigh in. I just don't see it fit to continue comparing it there is an obvious SQ advantage for 1 DAP over the other.
post #2080 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post


If you value capacity and have enough money, it will be an easy decision. On my side, I value capacity very high but being a poor master student, the money is an issue (that's why I had high hopes for pre order discount).

This is where I don't get the idea. With either players you are never limited in capacity. Only in convenience and imagination.
post #2081 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post

Just to keep things simple, we look at DAPs so we hear hear the best possible rendering of the music of course with the headphone you have/like. Comparing 2 DAP should have SQ as the 1st primary criteria. If they are on par then other features weigh in. I just don't see it fit to continue comparing it there is an obvious SQ advantage for 1 DAP over the other.

Thanks for the clarification, my mistake. In this case then I can't wait to hear your impressions about the two players. beerchug.gif
post #2082 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post


This is where I don't get the idea. With either players you are never limited in capacity. Only in convenience and imagination.


Well let's say, high capacity with easy, user friendly features. I don't want to buy 5 different sd/micro sd cards and keep on swapping them or add extra hdd to DX90 and use it's usb otg function cuz it reduces the battery life and makes the dap very hot.

 

It has been discussed before many times so I will just state my opinion but swapping sd/micro sd cards on to go is a bad idea. You can very easily lose them, drop them, forget them.

post #2083 of 5502

So can anybody with far more technical knowledge than i explain about the channel separation ?

 

Isn't one of the prime reasons to use two chips to create greater channel separation ?  

post #2084 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 


Well let's say, high capacity with easy, user friendly features. I don't want to buy 5 different sd/micro sd cards and keep on swapping them or add extra hdd to DX90 and use it's usb otg function cuz it reduces the battery life and makes the dap very hot.

 

It has been discussed before many times so I will just state my opinion but swapping sd/micro sd cards on to go is a bad idea. You can very easily lose them, drop them, forget them.

It's amazing how far a micro sd card can travel when released from a sprung slot...I've managed over 2m from a DX-100 but I'm sure the record is much further...

post #2085 of 5502

Part of it but there is also less IM and better perceived dynamic character as well. Often using 2 DACs, even without balanced mode will perceptively improve things simply because the 2 channels aren't drawing current of the same tiny track in the chip. It's not always apparent in the steady state measurements as given. There's a bit more art to it than specs as using the DAC in stereo is already in the inaudible difference spec realm. The channel separation via it's output jack won't approach the given number under load and that's fine. It will be enough. There are other aspects of it's performance that will a lot more important. The numbers for most of

these better units are all excellent overall. It will come down to a listen.


Edited by goodvibes - 4/5/14 at 1:09am
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