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$999 Calyx M with DXD + DSD, 64GB + SD + µSD storage - Page 118

post #1756 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicheaven View Post

I don't quite see how the X5 would be a direct competitor to either the D90 or Calyx M. The later are both an implementation of the Sabre dac as opposed to the PCM1792 dac used in the X5.

I've heard 179x implementations that I've preferred to some 9018s and vice/versa. I don't think parts used(as long as good) should be an evaluation parameter. 

post #1757 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

I've heard 179x implementations that I've preferred to some 9018s and vice/versa. I don't think parts used(as long as good) should be an evaluation parameter. 

I was not looking at it strictly from one component, I recognize that implementation counts in using the parts but if you select components with a better SNR and audio characteristics, you have a better chance of building a better device.
post #1758 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicheaven View Post


Interesting you brought operating systems in the picture, actually I prefer Mac OS than Windows even more when comparing to Windows 8.1 but that's the subject of another site, another thread.
 

 

Windows XP was the last Windows I had before switching to Mac. I initially intended to get a macbook and install Windows and wipe out OSX. But when I turned on my macbook for the 1st time, It just took me 2 minutes before I knew it I'm fully online. I thought I give it a chance. Had to use parallels for a while for some windows apps I used when I could not find a Mac alternative. When I did I fully switched to Mac. The beauty of going Mac is most DAC you plug in to don't require driver installation.

 

I'm banking on Calyx's experience working with Sabre DAC to make M extract the best possible SQ in a DAP. Unless Ibasso can get it right the first time especially using 2 chips.

post #1759 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

No, they need some time to prepare, just for us, a "special HeadFiers edition", with : Digital out Coax + Digital out Toshlink + Pure balanced LO +  100 bands EQ  + Rotary volume pot biggrin.gif  

Haha I would buy that! smily_headphones1.gif
post #1760 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

I've heard 179x implementations that I've preferred to some 9018s and vice/versa. I don't think parts used(as long as good) should be an evaluation parameter. 

THIS.

Especially I'm not sure how many of us had heard an ess9018k2m implementation. AFAIK it is a different chip than the ess9018 despite the namesake. I listened to the vivo Xplay 3S android phone that sports the 9018k2m and can't say I'm impressed.

With iBasso's email reply saying the DX90 should be ready for release next week, it seems I probably won't go for the M preorder at $850....
post #1761 of 5502

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post I've heard 179x implementations that I've preferred to some 9018s and vice/versa. I don't think parts used(as long as good) should be an evaluation parameter. 

THIS. Especially I'm not sure how many of us had heard an ess9018k2m implementation. AFAIK it is a different chip than the ess9018 despite the namesake. I listened to the vivo Xplay 3S android phone that sports the 9018k2m and can't say I'm impressed.

 

I have! I have! The ES9018K2M sounds great --- in the right hands. My Resonessence Concero HP is really good --- you'd never expect it to be USB powered and be 1/3 the size of an Apple TV unit.

 

You can't judge the 9018K2M by the Vivo X3S --- if you look at that thing, the master clock is randomly placed on the board, and the power supply rails directly come from the rest of the phone; ESS chips need really good power supplies, and the X3S is basically feeding it dirt --- no amount of world-class PSRR specs are going to make the DAC on that device jitter-free. Soomal has measurements of the X3S --- if you just look at the harmonic side bands you'll know that it's very meh in performance.

 

With that being said, using a TI-BB chip or an ESS chip is really a matter of design choice. An ESS chip *probably* has the highest theoretical ceiling, and it's certainly achievable, but designers have to be really careful about circuit design. I haven't seen any ESS DAC design that sounds good without a ton of power regulation and clean decoupling lines. Frankly, I thought the Dragonfly sounded very average, and so did the ADL X1 --- both used an ES9023. I thought the now-"ancient" HP-P1 sounded better than the ADL X1, and the HP-P1 only uses a "second-tier" AK4480. At the same time, I find that AK and BB chips, as well as Wolfson chips are much more tolerant of clock jitter and can still sound good, whereas ESS chips start sounding thin and fragile because you're forced to turn on its on-board ASRC. Most designers worth their mettle seem to forgo the on-board SRC for ESS chips, and that usually results in better-sounding, more robust performance (provided the power is clean, and the clock is good, of course).

 

I believe that given Calyx's experience with the ES9018, it's probably easier to design for the 2M; no, it's not the "same chip", but it's essentially a die-shrink of two of its cores (whereas the ES9012 is probably a binned ES9018). There are some minor differences, such as the fact that the ES9018 can sample up to 1.5 MHz (that's what the Auralic Vega does, it pre-upsamples everything with their own chip), whereas the K2M can only accept up to the standard max of 384 kHz, though I'm sure internal processing is the same. The K2M also has a built-in clock generator. For designs like the Calyx M, I don't think these differences really matter. What matters is determining how well the chip performs under a given supply voltage, and optimizing the circuit around the chip for the lowest noise possible, such as a very low-impedance AVCC supply.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post Yeah, for example, Asus have dabbled with audiophile PC soundcards - it'd be nice to see them turn their electronics engineering might towards the task of DAP creation.

 

I'd say it's a little more than dabbling --- they have an entire multimedia department concentrating on home-use DACs. The Essence One and STX are pretty good for the money, while the newly released Essence III, BTW, sounds really good --- it sounds like a high-end level home DAC --- I listened to it both single-ended and balanced, off an UERM and HD800, respectively, and both came off as being very, very detailed, while smooth on power delivery and spaciousness. Getting way off-topic, but yes, I do look forward to ASUS getting into this game. They've shown they can engineer a cost-effective DAC. They can definitely shrink it down and marry it with one of their mobile devices.

 

This is part of a reply I got from an ASUS product manager for their multimedia division, responsible for their entire Essence DAC line:
Yes we are aware of the trend with mobile devices and are finding ways that would optimize sound quality with limited power, while keeping it compact in size. We are actually looking more into wireless peripherals this year (i.e. wireless headphones, bt receivers etc)

 

It doesn't say much, but at least they're looking into it... they're most likely just scared of Apple and don't want to get into something where they might end up getting crushed in.

post #1762 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post


I have! I have! The ES9018K2M sounds great --- in the right hands. My Resonessence Concero HP is really good --- you'd never expect it to be USB powered and be 1/3 the size of an Apple TV unit.

You can't judge the 9018K2M by the Vivo X3S --- if you look at that ........


Yes exactly! The vivo is definitely an example of a meh or flat out poor implementation for audiophile standard. Just want to make the point where any speculation DAP with BB or CL chips won't be necessary worse than one with ESS chips despite I am a big sabre fans myself. Personally my expectation for the K2M is very high and can't wait to hear Calyx and PIcasso's [edit: iBasso's , stupid autocorrect] implementation.
Edited by kkcc - 3/11/14 at 3:08am
post #1763 of 5502

Who's Picasso? Not Pablo, I assume...

 

post #1764 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

Who's Picasso? Not Pablo, I assume...

LOL biggrin.gif
post #1765 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

Who's Picasso? Not Pablo, I assume...

 

 

Is that their new GUI ?  Interesting.... expecially the "search a file" function :-)

post #1766 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post


Yes exactly! The vivo is definitely an example of a meh or flat out poor implementation for audiophile standard. Just want to make the point where any speculation DAP with BB or CL chips won't be necessary worse than one with ESS chips despite I am a big sabre fans myself. Personally my expectation for the K2M is very high and can't wait to hear Calyx and PIcasso's [edit: iBasso's , stupid autocorrect] implementation.

And this. I can't think of better chip to use for this considering all the inboard stuff etc but proof will be in a listen as there's a lot more to it than which chip gets used. A players fw codecs alone can ruin a good thing.

post #1767 of 5502

The Calyx-M is going to sound excellent, I'm absolutely certain of it (even though I can't possibly be certain until I've actually heard it :tongue_smile:)

 

 

Seriously, though, I absolutely am, genuinely, expecting it to sound better (with CIEMs) than any other half-inch-thick device that has gone before it (including the ZX1).

 

I will eat my hat if it doesn't sound bloody good. As exasperated as I am with some of their functionality decisions, I trust them to have done a great job with the SQ performance.

post #1768 of 5502

Their website is down... can it be the international pre-order...
I am thinking or ordering it and compare it to the X5's sound. 

post #1769 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

The Calyx-M is going to sound excellent, I'm absolutely certain of it (even though I can't possibly be certain until I've actually heard it :tongue_smile:)

 

 

Seriously, though, I absolutely am, genuinely, expecting it to sound better (with CIEMs) than any other half-inch-thick device that has gone before it (including the ZX1).

 

I will eat my hat if it doesn't sound bloody good. As exasperated as I am with some of their functionality decisions, I trust them to have done a great job with the SQ performance.


I hope you are right else :atsmile:

 

post #1770 of 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanCandel View Post
 

Their website is down... can it be the international pre-order...
I am thinking or ordering it and compare it to the X5's sound. 


While you are at it, go buy a DX90 and compare both. :beerchug: 

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