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$999 Calyx M with DXD + DSD, 64GB + SD + µSD storage - Page 107

post #1591 of 5496

Your post has no relevance what so ever to speculation about the Calyx M.  If you genuinely wanted Mython to engage you with you in a conversational manner you would have PMed him your question.

 

Now ....  

 

This shows how low the residual noise of Calyx M. is.

It is merely 2uV.

 

Photo: This shows how low the residual noise of Calyx M. is. It is merely 2uV.
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Is this exceptional ?  Does this mean we can expect an inky black background ?


Edited by Sauntere - 3/4/14 at 11:56pm
post #1592 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercer View Post
 

 

Examples please

 

They think we are ready to pay whatever price they throw out there. Doubling the price vs. your previous TOTL DAP (AK120, which was already overpriced IMO) is showing that quite clearly.

 

HOWEVER, finding that the AK240 is worth the price is just a matter of personal judgment. If the AK240 sounded CLEARLY better than my 901, with all the other benefits (UI, size, battery, etc.), I might have bought it at 2.5k$, even if I find the price a bit insulting. Anyone who bought it and is happy with it, then I amp happy for them, and that includes you.

 

Now if Calyx offers comparable SQ and comparable overall package, than I hope they will make iRiver suffer from their greediness.

post #1593 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post

Hey kkcc, Having demoed the X5 - can you give me an idea of how much sound quality I would be missing out on if I settled on the cheaper X5 vs. the balanced 901 or the AK240? What do you think the X5 is lacking in comparison?

The key gap is in clarity/transparency and sound stage. X5 is a tier behind the AK240 and HM901 even in single ended mode. The gap widen more with balanced. How much you mind depends on what are the main genres you listen to most. I would imagine studio recorded pop/rock/vocals/edm won't suffer as much as live recordings, classical, jazz lovers may be bothered more. If full lush smooth type of sound float your boat, X5 is a marvelous choice. Personally I dig transparency and analytical sound. The ess9018 "house sound" suits me well and thus I m tracking the Calyx M closely. Sony ZX1 was at the other end where I feel it went overboard in the with staging (Clear Audio off) and its sound, while very spacious and articulate, doesn't feel real to me.

Anxious to hear the M myself or get more impression from Korea.
Edited by kkcc - 3/5/14 at 12:10am
post #1594 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post  Is this exceptional ?  Does this mean we can expect an inky black background ?

 

Yes. The Calyx M outputs 1.25V, so dynamic range = 20 x log[1.25/(2x10^-6)] = 115.9 dB(A)

 

Also, I have a device that has hum/noise at ~3.5 uV, and it's already dead quiet except with ultra-sensitive IEMs like the FI-BA-SS.


Edited by tomscy2000 - 3/5/14 at 12:12am
post #1595 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

Yes. The Calyx M outputs 1.25V, so dynamic range = 20 x log[1.25/(2x10^-6)] = 115.9 dB(A)

 

Also, I have a device that has hum/noise at ~3.5 uV, and it's already dead quiet except with ultra-sensitive IEMs like the FI-BA-SS.

Sounds great... I really dislike background noise so this is promising.

post #1596 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

Yes. The Calyx M outputs 1.25V, so dynamic range = 20 x log[1.25/(2x10^-6)] = 115.9 dB(A)

Also, I have a device that has hum/noise at ~3.5 uV, and it's already dead quiet except with ultra-sensitive IEMs like the FI-BA-SS.

Look promising.

Though the SNR may or may not indicate how black the background is. Hm901 has measured a-weighted SNR of 105 and has indeed a black LO. But with the different amp boards, there is definitely a difference in level of background noise observed.

Calyx M's 115 SNR if true is at least a very good sign.
post #1597 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post
 

 

They think we are ready to pay whatever price they throw out there. Doubling the price vs. your previous TOTL DAP (AK120, which was already overpriced IMO) is showing that quite clearly.

 

HOWEVER, finding that the AK240 is worth the price is just a matter of personal judgment. If the AK240 sounded CLEARLY better than my 901, with all the other benefits (UI, size, battery, etc.), I might have bought it at 2.5k$, even if I find the price a bit insulting. Anyone who bought it and is happy with it, then I amp happy for them, and that includes you.

 

Now if Calyx offers comparable SQ and comparable overall package, than I hope they will make iRiver suffer from their greediness.

 

Making products that you think are too expensive is not sticking a middle finger up at the consumer. You are not forced to buy the products, you do not have to buy the products. End of story.

 

And here's why it is relevant to this thread - It will be great for everybody if the Calyx M has excellent sound quality because what we on Head-Fi want is the hires music industry to succeed, and it will only succeed if there is a healthy and competitive ecosystem of many different portable DAPs available. That includes trailblazing flagship products like the AK240 (which, I will remind you again, you do not have to buy if you don't want to), the Calyx M, the HM-901 etc... Having all these companies positioned at different point of the cost/SQ field will push things forward massively.

post #1598 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post  Look promising. Though the SNR may or may not indicate how black the background is. Hm901 has measured a-weighted SNR of 105 and has indeed a black LO. But with the different amp boards, there is definitely a difference in level of background noise observed. Calyx M's 115 SNR if true is at least a very good sign.


Yes, the perception of a "black background" has to do with that absolute noise value. 2 uV is very low indeed. I wanted to illustrate SNR to show the relative level of noise, but when no music is outputting, it's the absolute noise floor that counts.

post #1599 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post

Sony ZX1 was at the other end where I feel it went overboard in the with staging (Clear Audio off) and its sound, while very spacious and articulate, doesn't feel real to me.
 

kkcc, it is exactly how I feel about ZX-1 and I cannot put in words like you do.

 

If Calyx M with similar excellent form factor will be a real winner if it sounds as good as its CEO claimed i.e. better than AK240 and Calyx 24/192 desktop DAC.

post #1600 of 5496

hmmm , now i am choosing between the calyx,zx1, and the fiio x5 however according to kkc i will probably like the x5 better

post #1601 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

Is there any hard evidence of this being fact (i.e. a web URL), or is it just rumour ?

 

I've seen it mentioned by several head-fiers during the past week, but no one has offered any links to such information.

 

Hi Mython, Sony has said nothing directly. It comes from this What Hi-Fi review  http://www.whathifi.com/review/nwz-zx1

 

'Sony has however told us it is looking to introduce SD card slots elsewhere in the Walkman line-up'

 

Trying to decide between Calyx M and ZX1 myself. Impressed with ZX1's sound with no colouration added, would have bought already had UK release been sooner. Now trying to decide whether to hold off for Calyx?

post #1602 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrias View Post

hmmm , now i am choosing between the calyx,zx1, and the fiio x5 however according to kkc i will probably like the x5 better

Lol sound is only part of the DAP equation and amongst the three you listed it is most likely dead last in all other non sound and price aspects...
post #1603 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrias View Post
 

hmmm , now i am choosing between the calyx,zx1, and the fiio x5 however according to kkc i will probably like the x5 better

 

I have the X5 and like it very much. However I don't see how I or anyone can conclude anything quite yet compared to the M because none of us have heard the M.

 

I like the X5 enough that I'm wondering why I will buy the M. But I do expect it to sound better and I am also fascinated by the interface which gives Rockbox active playlist functionality with an elegant presentation.

 

Still it is $800.

post #1604 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercer View Post
 

 

Hi Mython,

 

you've obviously been here a long while, and so I will show some respect. However you do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Astell&Kern :-) The vast majority of people who have listened to the AK240 have been completely blown away by it. Some people including the reviewers on the review thread even get pretty excited by it - something you seemed to find inappropriate, even though this is a community of people who are excited by HiFi.

 

So, the AK240 is a piece of high-end HiFi. It exists, people have it in their hands and those that have it, love it. Thats great, and the fact that it is very expensive is neither here nor there - we're talking about HiFi :-) It is an incredible piece of kit and A&K should be saluted for pushing things forward in this way. Others will play catch up and the whole portable HiFi market will be enriched by it.

 

On the other hand the Calyx M is not available yet and so when it comes down to what really matters, SQ, we are still in the dark! A few people who have tried it briefly say it sounds great - which is awesome - but who knows?

 

Competition is good.

 

Have you  yourself listened to an AK240?

 

 

I think Mython has every right to have a proverbial 'wasp in his beret' as 'the vast majority' (using your terminology) will see the AK240 as vastly overpriced... the AK240 cannot imho be deemed as hi-end Hi-Fi, there is only one portable product that scales those dizzying heights on Head-Fi and that is the Chord Hugo and at half the price of the AK240 in the UK it really is no brainer. I realise that the Hugo isn't a DAP but you can strap a myriad of sources to it and the end result will be exactly the same, true hi-end Hi-Fi.

 

from the feedback I have garnered from the recent Bristol Show after talking to a few people about DAP's, the general consensus (we are talking six peeps) was that the AK240 was a great DAP though two preferred the ZX1 over it, two preferred the AK240 over the ZX1, one preferred his HM901, I won't include the last as he said he wouldn't be upgrading from his DX100 so saw no point demo'ig a ZX1 or AK240... all said the Hugo was an extraordinary product that was in a different league to the aforementioned DAP's.

 

at the end of the day there is little to chose sound & SQ wise from new breed of DAP that is hitting the market, it will all be about what sound signature you are after, some will prefer strawberries others will say raspberries is better, it's all down to your personal taste.... though I daresay in the near future Head-Fi will be renamed to 'Hugo-Fi', make of that what you will.


Edited by OK-Guy - 3/5/14 at 4:11am
post #1605 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK-Guy View Post
 

 

 

I think Mython has every right to have a proverbial 'wasp in his beret' as 'the vast majority' (using your terminology) will see the AK240 as vastly overpriced... the AK240 cannot imho be deemed as hi-end Hi-Fi, there is only one portable product that scales those dizzying heights on Head-Fi and that is the Chord Hugo and at half the price of the AK240 in the UK it really is no brainer. I realise that the Hugo isn't a DAP but you can strap a myriad of sources to it and the end result will be exactly the same, true hi-end Hi-Fi.

 

from the feedback I have garnered from the recent Bristol Show after talking to a few people about DAP's, the general consensus (we are talking six peeps) was that the AK240 was a great DAP though two preferred the ZX1 over it, two preferred the AK240 over the ZX1, one preferred his HM901, I won't include the last as he said he wouldn't be upgrading from his DX100 so saw no point demo'ig a ZX1 or AK240... all said the Hugo was an extraordinary product that was in a different league to the aforementioned DAP's.

 

at the end of the day there is little to chose sound & SQ wise from new breed of DAP that is hitting the market, it will all be about what sound signature you are after, some will prefer strawberries others will say raspberries is better, it's all down to your personal taste.... though I daresay in the near future Head-Fi will be renamed to 'Hugo-Fi', make of that what you will.

 

The Hugo SQ is undeniably superior to all other current DAPs out there and I can guess as much even though I have not audition it personally myself. It has a highly-customized FPGA DAC and is able to accommodate a powerful internal amp with its large footprint. It already has the upper hand/advantage in terms of internal hardware space and will undoubtedly outperform all other DAPs. However, IMO it is more of a transportable device rather than portable and is quite huge already on its own without a DAP. Sure strapping a DAP with the right bit-perfect connection to it would make the whole setup sing, but we will need to source for a suitable DAP that can do bit-perfect output at the highest resolution (DSD128/PCM384) to Hugo and does not incur too much of an added cost. Does such a DAP exist now? X5 can do coaxial out but does not support native DSD, so it cannot fully utilize the native DSD feature of the Hugo DAC. I feel Hugo is really targeted at a different market segment, more for those who wish to drive high impedance cans and also hook it up often to their home audio rig/PC, instead of purely as a portable audio device. Besides, the idea of trying to pocket a Hugo with a DAP strapped to it sounds even worse than trying to pocket a DX100 or HM-901 on-the-go. Moreover, using Hugo on IEMs is going to be an overkill and defeats the purpose of being comfortably portable IMO. Yes, it has better SQ at a cheaper cost but it is not an end-all-be-all portable audio solution.


Edited by Bluebear - 3/5/14 at 5:08am
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