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$999 Calyx M with DXD + DSD, 64GB + SD + µSD storage - Page 91

post #1351 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

I'm in no hurry to buy a DAP that stupidly and unnecessarily puts my hearing at risk, and whose control buttons are difficult to reliably identify by touch, in my pocket.

 

Maybe that makes me strange, but I don't think so

Yes it does. And I will be finding them impossible to find buttons in my pocket without a hitch.

 

@ Maxlight

 

Your impressions are quite wonderful. :beerchug: The M looks to be a winner in my book. Better start saving up


Edited by D3Seeker - 2/24/14 at 7:29pm
post #1352 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by D3Seeker View Post

Yes it does. And I will be finding them impossible to find buttons in my pocket without a hitch.

@ Maxlight

Your impressions are quite wonderful. beerchug.gif  The M looks to be a winner in my book. Better start saving up

thank you. i hopr that it will be satisfying devices. :- )
post #1353 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

Maxlight, your impressions are much appreciated!

I am glad that Calyx will add a File Browser. That is an extremely important function.

thank you!! biggrin.gif
post #1354 of 5496

Hi Maxlight.

 

Were there any other impressions given on the forums you mentioned ? 

post #1355 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

Yesterday? Pah! Old news!  :wink_face:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/687944/999-calyx-m-with-dxd-dsd-64gb-sd-sd-storage/630#post_10229933

Lol, we know it is available in asian markets.  But this one was the first officially in the United States :)

post #1356 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post

So Calyx M as usb dac will perform better than the Calyx model 24/192 desktop DAC http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/calyx3/1.html

Really shouldn't so I doubt that's what he intended either. Perhaps he meant an onboard file is better than using a PC via usb. Something I could believe.

post #1357 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post
 

Hi Maxlight.

 

Were there any other impressions given on the forums you mentioned ? 

Hmm. I mentioned all as I remember. Because most of the other participants were from AK series community, they seemed to be very cautious to say anything. As you know, in this field, it is easy to argue with the quality of sound. However, other postings or opinions in Korean website after the presentation, the reputation of M was focused on the naturality and no coloration pretty much. And he told us about the every parts were composed of the best class ingredients from the most reliable companies. One of them is the "Gorilla glass" to protect display from the Corning. Others were also interesting but I can't talk all of them because it was confidential before its releasing date to mass communication, worldwide. I knew the stories of FiiO X5 and iBasso DX90 is supposed to be equipped with wonderful DAC chips and amps. I think it depends on the choice by the each customer. Good luck for you! :- )

post #1358 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

I'm in no hurry to buy a DAP that stupidly and unnecessarily puts my hearing at risk, and whose control buttons are difficult to reliably identify by touch, in my pocket.

 

Maybe that makes me strange, but I don't think so

Hi there, Mython.  This is actually my first post on head-fi, but I'm very interested in the Calyx M, and have read this thread from first post to the last.

 

Just to establish my non-credentials, I'm fairly new to the high-end headphone world -- I admit there's a lot I don't know -- and even newer to the idea of high-end DAPs.  :)

 

That being said, I understand your (and AmberOzL's, among others) issue with the sliding volume control.  I don't necessarily share it, though.  Calyx seems to have been paying attention to the comments on this thread, and the M now has an SD card slot and external control buttons as a result.  The fact that the sliding volume control wasn't deleted hints (to me) that they have addressed the issue.  After all, among all the features they've added or deleted to make the device more palatable to the consumer, the sliding volume control is the one feature that might end up being a litigation issue, especially since any good lawyer is going to dig up this thread and say Calyx was warned ahead of time and did it anyway... if it's actually an issue.

 

How might Calyx have addressed your concerns?  I don't know, but I put on my designer hat in thinking about the issue and came up with a few approaches that might work.  I'll leave it to those more knowledgable and experienced in the world of audio circuitry to shoot them down or refine them (I don't mind, my ignorance is profound; I'm just a mechanical engineer by profession).

 

Here are a few ideas about how Calyx might have made it safe.

 

1. Capacitive touch sensor in the slider (and other external buttons):

What if the volume control simply doesn't work unless it's a human, errr, appendage operating it?  True, there could still be a problem if someone has one of those capacitive styli in their pocket, but any other pocket junk won't allow the slider to control the volume.

 

2. Drop-away slider:

According to my understanding, the slider is held to the device magnetically.  If the internals are stiff and the magnetic force is light (and there's no thumb over it to clamp it in place), then a foreign object would just knock the slider off.  This could be refined by having the M go silent if the slider isn't in place.  Alternatively, a fixed-level alert tone/pattern could play when the slider is missing.  (Or, a sexy voice, in the gender of the user's choosing, could offer a "slider missing" message.)  Hopefully extra sliders will be provided and/or inexpensive.

 

3. Volume rate limit:

I'm pretty much set-it-and-forget-it when it comes to the volume of my players, so this might be less bothersome to me than to others.  What if the volume can only change at a certain rate by design?  Maybe when powered on for the first time, there could be a setup procedure, and the user would be asked to operate the volume at a fairly normal rate a few times.  After that, faster changes will be ignored.  A reasonable volume rate limit would allow one to at least pull CIEMs out or headphones off if a UVC (Unintended Volume Change) is occurring.

 

4. Accelerometer:

No volume changes while jostling the device, period.  Obviously normal hand tremors would be allowed, but during any accelerations greater than that the volume would not respond.  This might be an issue for users who have health issues like MS, though, so I can see why trying to implement this might give Calyx fits.  In event of accelerometer failure, volume can only be turned down, or defaults to something like 10% or something.

 

5. Maximum volume limit:

Another setup procedure.  The M would ship with the limit set at an annoyingly low limit and stay there unless the user completes the setup, including setting the max volume limit.  Test tones could be provided on-board to facilitate this.

 

6. Maximum volume limit plus power monitoring:

The problem with item 5, above, is that different headphones and IEM/CIEMs have different sensitivities.  I don't know if this is possible, but what if there was some monitoring of the output signal power relative to the volume setting?  What I'm getting at is a sort of system that monitors what's going on and adjusts accordingly.  For instance, if the max volume limit was set while someone was wearing a pair of MOEs, and they later plug in their CIEMs, the device would notice that more or less current is being drawn for a given volume setting and prompt some action: reset the limit, perhaps?  Ideally, of course, it would be transparent (adjust the limit based on the data autonomously), but that might be asking too much.  

 

(Though this doesn't address the slider directly, I think it would be very cool to have a user-curated "library" of headphones available.  The maximum volumes, EQ settings [assuming the M has an EQ function], etc. for the users own collection of headphones could be input, stored, and recalled when needed.  I'm actually a bit surprised Apple hasn't done something similar already.)

 

None of these are perfect, and there's room to combine them, I think.  As I said, though, I'm no audio circuit expert, and have no idea how any of these would affect the M's sound quality.  Response?

post #1359 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxlight View Post

Hmm. I mentioned all as I remember. Because most of the other participants were from AK series community, they seemed to be very cautious to say anything. As you know, in this field, it is easy to argue with the quality of sound. However, other postings or opinions in Korean website after the presentation, the reputation of M was focused on the naturality and no coloration pretty much. And he told us about the every parts were composed of the best class ingredients from the most reliable companies. One of them is the "Gorilla glass" to protect display from the Corning. Others were also interesting but I can't talk all of them because it was confidential before its releasing date to mass communication, worldwide. I knew the stories of FiiO X5 and iBasso DX90 is supposed to be equipped with wonderful DAC chips and amps. I think it depends on the choice by the each customer. Good luck for you! :- )

Good to hear it has best of the breeds incorporated which we all expect from a grand DAP...infact last week i was referring "gorilla glass" to be a part of the screen component and happy to see that it is now.biggrin.gif
post #1360 of 5496

@Maxlight Nice impressions. Would you describe the sound signature of the M as lean/cold? 


Edited by pekingduck - 2/25/14 at 6:26am
post #1361 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekingduck View Post

@Maxlight
 Nice impressions. Would you describe the sound signature of the M as lean/cold? 

It would be so neutral because of their analog-like sound and limitation on the music selection, it was just felt like a little warm :- )
post #1362 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxlight View Post


It would be so neutral because of their analog-like sound and limitation on the music selection, it was just felt like a little warm :- )

Sounds great :regular_smile :

post #1363 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

I also didn't understand this. "Calyx M as USB DAC will provide even better than 24/192. I guarantee this." Could be a language thing but I doubt it will offers more than 24/192 via usb, nor should it need to.

 

Perhaps he was referring to the M's support for 32/384?

post #1364 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otodynia View Post
 

Hi there, Mython.  This is actually my first post on head-fi, but I'm very interested in the Calyx M, and have read this thread from first post to the last.

 

Just to establish my non-credentials, I'm fairly new to the high-end headphone world -- I admit there's a lot I don't know -- and even newer to the idea of high-end DAPs.  :)

 

That being said, I understand your (and AmberOzL's, among others) issue with the sliding volume control.  I don't necessarily share it, though.  Calyx seems to have been paying attention to the comments on this thread, and the M now has an SD card slot and external control buttons as a result.  The fact that the sliding volume control wasn't deleted hints (to me) that they have addressed the issue.  After all, among all the features they've added or deleted to make the device more palatable to the consumer, the sliding volume control is the one feature that might end up being a litigation issue, especially since any good lawyer is going to dig up this thread and say Calyx was warned ahead of time and did it anyway... if it's actually an issue.

 

How might Calyx have addressed your concerns?  I don't know, but I put on my designer hat in thinking about the issue and came up with a few approaches that might work.  I'll leave it to those more knowledgable and experienced in the world of audio circuitry to shoot them down or refine them (I don't mind, my ignorance is profound; I'm just a mechanical engineer by profession).

 

Here are a few ideas about how Calyx might have made it safe.

 

1. Capacitive touch sensor in the slider (and other external buttons):

What if the volume control simply doesn't work unless it's a human, errr, appendage operating it?  True, there could still be a problem if someone has one of those capacitive styli in their pocket, but any other pocket junk won't allow the slider to control the volume.

 

2. Drop-away slider:

According to my understanding, the slider is held to the device magnetically.  If the internals are stiff and the magnetic force is light (and there's no thumb over it to clamp it in place), then a foreign object would just knock the slider off.  This could be refined by having the M go silent if the slider isn't in place.  Alternatively, a fixed-level alert tone/pattern could play when the slider is missing.  (Or, a sexy voice, in the gender of the user's choosing, could offer a "slider missing" message.)  Hopefully extra sliders will be provided and/or inexpensive.

 

3. Volume rate limit:

I'm pretty much set-it-and-forget-it when it comes to the volume of my players, so this might be less bothersome to me than to others.  What if the volume can only change at a certain rate by design?  Maybe when powered on for the first time, there could be a setup procedure, and the user would be asked to operate the volume at a fairly normal rate a few times.  After that, faster changes will be ignored.  A reasonable volume rate limit would allow one to at least pull CIEMs out or headphones off if a UVC (Unintended Volume Change) is occurring.

 

4. Accelerometer:

No volume changes while jostling the device, period.  Obviously normal hand tremors would be allowed, but during any accelerations greater than that the volume would not respond.  This might be an issue for users who have health issues like MS, though, so I can see why trying to implement this might give Calyx fits.  In event of accelerometer failure, volume can only be turned down, or defaults to something like 10% or something.

 

5. Maximum volume limit:

Another setup procedure.  The M would ship with the limit set at an annoyingly low limit and stay there unless the user completes the setup, including setting the max volume limit.  Test tones could be provided on-board to facilitate this.

 

6. Maximum volume limit plus power monitoring:

The problem with item 5, above, is that different headphones and IEM/CIEMs have different sensitivities.  I don't know if this is possible, but what if there was some monitoring of the output signal power relative to the volume setting?  What I'm getting at is a sort of system that monitors what's going on and adjusts accordingly.  For instance, if the max volume limit was set while someone was wearing a pair of MOEs, and they later plug in their CIEMs, the device would notice that more or less current is being drawn for a given volume setting and prompt some action: reset the limit, perhaps?  Ideally, of course, it would be transparent (adjust the limit based on the data autonomously), but that might be asking too much.  

 

(Though this doesn't address the slider directly, I think it would be very cool to have a user-curated "library" of headphones available.  The maximum volumes, EQ settings [assuming the M has an EQ function], etc. for the users own collection of headphones could be input, stored, and recalled when needed.  I'm actually a bit surprised Apple hasn't done something similar already.)

 

None of these are perfect, and there's room to combine them, I think.  As I said, though, I'm no audio circuit expert, and have no idea how any of these would affect the M's sound quality.  Response?

 

Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions, Otodynia.

 

My responses, here, aren't aimed at you, personally, but just responding to the ideas themselves, since you asked me to respond.

 

  • 1. Capacitive touch sensor - A possible solution, yes, but what if the slider has moved to the maximum position without the volume itself being at maximum? Would I then have to move the slider down a bit, using an inanimate object, or my sleeve, before touching it with my thumb in order to actually increase the volume when I want to?
  • 2. Drop-away slider - Really not a professional solution on a high-end DAP
  • 3. Volume rate limit - Not a bad idea, in principle, but even a normal person, in normal usage, doesn't always use the volume control at the same speed - sometimes one wants to adjust volume quickly.
  • 4. Accelerometer - A bit fraught with problems - what if I'm running for the train, or running down an escalator/stairs, and the DAP refuses to allow me to change the volume unless I stop running?
  • 5. Maximum volume limit - This is somewhat viable, and, in any case, it's a feature I think should be offered on all DAP firmwares, but it's still not an entirely professional solution - a high-end DAP should not have a volatile volume slider, even if the max volume is user-capped in the firmware, for safety.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW the M does not have an EQ.

 

 

 

I appreciate your thoughtfulness, and, believe me, I have been considering various similar possibilities, myself, this past few weeks. I just feel that in spite of their obvious great talents for designing wonderful-sounding digital electronic circuitry, one or more people on the Calyx team have fallen desperately in love with the idea of a volume control that has an 'analogue feel', and they are so determined to continue that love affair that they don't care that it's not the most practical solution for a pocket device, or that it even poses a potential health-&-safety risk.

Hypothetically, I actually like the idea of an 'analogue-feel' control, but....  on a pocket device, I feel that that luxury feel is outweighed by the importance of ensuring practical efficacy and safety (and, before the last-minute alterations, the [REW] [PLAY/PAUSE] [FFW] buttons were absolutely fine and did not need silly changes to them to make them harder to identify by touch).   Remember, this is the same design team who originally thought it acceptable to not even bother to include [REW] and [FFW] buttons, at all...

 

It perplexes me that such an enormously talented group of engineers would take so much time, pouring their heart-&-soul into producing a fantastic-sounding device that brings great enjoyment to themselves and to audiophiles around the world, and then make silly, silly, silly design decisions about something as simple as control buttons.  :confused_face(1):

 

I'll even point out that they obviously care about UI a lot, because of the effort they have poured into the software interface - so why be so stubbornly illogical with the hardware control buttons?

 

 

@ Calyx staff: PLEASE reconsider the buttons. The latest alterations were a backwards step.

 

                                     Such a simple thing to change, but could make so much difference to user satisfaction, in both the immediate and long term.

 

                                                             Thankyou!

 

 



Edited by Mython - 2/25/14 at 12:43pm
post #1365 of 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

I'll even point out that they obviously care about UI a lot, because of the effort they have poured into the software interface - so why be so stubbornly illogical with the hardware control buttons?

 

 

@ Calyx staff: PLEASE reconsider the buttons. The latest alterations were a backwards step.

 

                                     Such a simple thing to change, but could make so much difference to user satisfaction, in both the immediate and long term.

 

                                                             Thankyou!

 

 


 

Here is a little humor, it's about software development but could fit quite nicely with the situation at hand. ;)

 

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