Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Geek Pulse: Geek desktop DAC/AMP by Light Harmonics
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Geek Pulse: Geek desktop DAC/AMP by Light Harmonics - Page 103

post #1531 of 4066

According to this test

http://www.head-fi.org/t/528380/electrolytic-capacitors-used-in-audio-dc-blocking-comparison-tread

elna silmic seem to be one of the best to get, really good! Just depending if "warmer" (old) or more "neutral" (new)

Wow!

post #1532 of 4066
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucasB View Post
 

According to this test

http://www.head-fi.org/t/528380/electrolytic-capacitors-used-in-audio-dc-blocking-comparison-tread

elna silmic seem to be one of the best to get, really good! Just depending if "warmer" (old) or more "neutral" (new)

Wow!


Are they using them for DC blocking? If they are using a bipolar supply which I truly hope is the case, they would not be required.

looking at the original post I highly doubt these are being used for coupling:

"In Geek Pulse key analog stage supply part, I decide to add 4 Elna RFS II Capacitors there."


Edited by sbradley02 - 4/10/14 at 4:10pm
post #1533 of 4066
Quote:
Yes, but 1) I ordered upgrades to make it $1000, the default Pulse was set to launch at $500; I would certainly not pay $1000 for any single device, 2) no one here knows what the Pulse sounds like except for Larry, so no one can accurately say "oh yes, of course it'll be worth $1000;" you all are just making wild assumptions that the stock unit's 100% price increase is somehow justified.

 

I agree having this discussion before people actually hear the product is a bit silly.

 

But, since when price has to be "justified"?  This is not how free market works.  Sellers are free to charge whatever they want.  Buyers are free to buy what they want.

post #1534 of 4066
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbradley02 View Post
 


Are they using them for DC blocking? If they are using a bipolar supply which I truly hope is the case, they would not be required.

looking at the original post I highly doubt these are being used for coupling:

"In Geek Pulse key analog stage supply part, I decide to add 4 Elna RFS II Capacitors there."

DC blocking cap?  Oh... no. I only use them in tube circuit and I still prefer the sound of IT. 

 

Bipolar power supply is my favor. ;-)  

 

Geek Out, Geek Pulse, Geek Wave's signals are ALL direct coupled. No Caps in signal chain. 

post #1535 of 4066

Oh!

Thanks!

Didn´t check where implemented. But good raising the question and thank you Larry Ho, now we even know more.

I am not so much into audio circuits, but nice to learn something again!

post #1536 of 4066

Here is a good article

Hopefully my addition below is mostly correct

There are two cases where you need a coupling capacitor. All single supply circuits must use them because otherwise the AC signal cannot go negative in respect to ground. Also in a bipolar supply circuit, small circuit differences can cause a DC offset. This is usually eliminated through the use of some form of DC servo.

 

Only film capacitors are reasonably linear with audio signals, and since the value must be high to avoid bass roll-off, an appropriate film capacitor would be enormous so these end up typically being some form of electrolytic which are notoriously non-linear with respect to AC. Portable devices that use these should be avoided IMO. As a personal example my Fiio (DC coupled) X3 blew away my previous Colorfly C4 (capacitor coupled).

 

It would be interesting to hear how LH is deriving V- from a single 12V supply. There are a few different approaches.


Edited by sbradley02 - 4/11/14 at 11:54am
post #1537 of 4066
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


Yes, but 1) I ordered upgrades to make it $1000, the default Pulse was set to launch at $500; I would certainly not pay $1000 for any single device, 2) no one here knows what the Pulse sounds like except for Larry, so no one can accurately say "oh yes, of course it'll be worth $1000;" you all are just making wild assumptions that the stock unit's 100% price increase is somehow justified.

I have only read the last couple pages or so, but where does it say that the Pulse base model is going to MSRP at $1000?  And if you are paying $1000 through the campaign, then you have the maxed out version with LPS, and that bundle certainly isn't going to retail for what you paid for it.  It would be hard to imagine it retailing for less than $2K.  Since everyone is basically talking out of their arses right now, so will I.  There was no price increase.  The most basic Pulse will remain at $500 MSRP, and if you got in as a GEEK Out backer, it was a steal at $200 (based on reviews of both the Da Vinci and the GEEK Out, LHLabs seems to know what they are doing).  The MSRP of a fully loaded Pulse X with LPS will likely be north of $2000, which would still be a relative bargain when you have zero DACs that use femto clocks retailing for under $3.5K.  I can't debate if femto clocks are actually worth it, but since I paid less than $200 for them instead of $2000 for them, the Pulse is already a screaming deal in my mind.  Once we finally hear it, we can scream bloody murder or weep tears of joy, but until then, based on the cost of components and what products that use them retail for, we are definitely getting a very good deal (ie. it is worth the price).  I think people on both extremes of the spectrum need to chill for a bit.

post #1538 of 4066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ho View Post

For your reference: Besides IGG backers, no one in the world will see this $299 price tag again... ;-)

We will decide the final retail price after the material cost and assembly/QC cost is confirmed. 
But from what I see now, it seems won't go under $1000.
$299 was the early backer price for the stock Geek Pulse, so I'm interpreting that the stock Geek Pulse will be over $1000 retail.
post #1539 of 4066
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


$299 was the early backer price for the stock Geek Pulse, so I'm interpreting that the stock Geek Pulse will be over $1000 retail.

Thanks.  I will be pretty surprised if the stock Pulse is priced at $1000 retail.  But then again, the Concero HD/HPs are the only devices that I have seen out so far that use the mobile 9018 chipset and those go for $800+ each and the Pulse is a combo unit.  Well, then as an early backer, we are getting an even better deal than I originally thought.  A fully loaded is probably going to be over $2500 retail if the base pricing holds.  This will be going up against PerfectWaves and Master 7s now.  REALLY interested to see those comparisons.  Kind of mad at myself for not getting an additional one for the office now.

 

Just keep in mind that LHLabs is doing something very out of the ordinary by including us in the design of their devices.  I know a lot of people, even backers of their products, can't handle that kind of uncertainty and fluidity, but I am very grateful that they are listening and am happy to be patient and give them the benefit of the doubt.

post #1540 of 4066
I'm with you on that one... When I backed the Pulse initially I was like: "dude, its like the ConceroHP and HD in one box, what a deal at $500 and even better at the super early bird price!!!"

But then came the X version and I thought, "well now we'll be getting into x-matrix territory".. But after LPS, lightspeed1G, femto clocks, analog stage upgrades, etc.... And the Larry's words like "This IS our next level DAC" and "We are aiming at the $2.5k to $3.5k crowd"....... The fully loaded Pulse will not be less $2000....

But if the Pulse does comes out at around $850.... It will be right against the Concero an will be basically both models together
post #1541 of 4066

Interesting, very good to know all this. I remember switching gear for head-phone out from laptop to an old Yamaha amp and still the old and used amp's out was better then modern laptop's one. Will take a look inside and maybe I will discover it has one of the better implementations! Only it is 20 years old doesn´t mean it's not good.

I am really thrilled to know we get such a quality dac, since I read on lhlabs that firmware can be updated. So software can be updated in the future. Would be good to know if this includes only interface and on-board stuff or as well audio-filter and things like that.

 

(Comparing the dac to what´s out there I do not only look for the same dac-chip but also the price. I personally think even big consumer companies like sony, onkyo, teac, ... have good dac´s at this price point comparing to the basic pulse - but with all the latest improvements here I guess the pulse will be better. Have you seen this for comparison for the dual-mono: http://www.head-fi.org/t/697035/ibasso-dx90-dual-sabre-es9018k2m-new-amp-section-review-1st-page-post-your-impressions)


Edited by LucasB - 4/13/14 at 7:11am
post #1542 of 4066

My problem with the LH gang is they had a weak product plan to begin with...just a bare outline of a product which they did not have fully fleshed out.  So, they lost control of the project with innumerable add-on's. updates and perks.  This ballooned into some 20 plus varieties.  Who can keep track of such a monster in development and production?  With all these varieties they have to somehow maintain the quality/performance across all the possible complications and interactions.  This is tough to do with a single design but with all of their models, what kind of product will emerge?  I bet they are kicking themselves for letting this get so out of control! 

post #1543 of 4066

I can see your point, but In my opinion you are a bit fast-judging. The variations have been added because of demand not because of try and error. I dealt a little bit with product "families" - every company has it if you look around: From small to big car. From heavy to light bicycle. From mediocre to accurate dac. If you have spent time on a subject switching only one part on a product cost- or performance wise is actually not so hard. The difficulty is to only offer where there is a demand, otherwise it gets ridiculously. And exactly that they have done. As far as I know compared to 90% of all crowd-funding-campaingns out there they are good in time! But I would agree that there is improvement on the timetable. But said again, most crowd funding-campaings lack that, because the future is just so hard to predict.


Edited by LucasB - 4/13/14 at 2:43pm
post #1544 of 4066
The Pulse, very much like the Geek Out and now the Wave, were also a market research project as much as a different way to launch a product. LH Labs was like: "Well we have this product idea and we are thinking on this....,but please tell us what you think and how we could make it better". The community who backed the project gave their options and the Geek Out ended up with 3 variations and a different DAC chip than what was originally plan.... Yes Pulse put that on steroids if you will. I personally give my kudos to LHLabs to try to please with the different configurations of the Pulse. Sure its difficult, but after all is said and done they will have a rather large installed base of probably happy customers (extrapolating from GO reports).

The wave, which is their last campaign will be no different and they say so in their campaign, "we want your suggestions on how we can make it better". They already have different configurations and I believe those will grow over the course of the campaign. Wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing a dual mono Wave too!
post #1545 of 4066
Thread Starter 

Don't remind me eli..

 

Geek Wave Xfi !!

Dual-mono ES9018K2M + fpga + femto +  Active/Passive component.

 

Its just like my maxed out Geek Pulse made to a portable multifunction DAP. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Geek Pulse: Geek desktop DAC/AMP by Light Harmonics