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Beyerdynamics dt770 80ohm severly lack mids. Return or buy amp/dac?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

After lurking in Head-fi for quite a while, I upgraded from Sennheiser HD555 to Beyer DT770 80 ohm. While I liked my Sennheisers, they weren't really good for listening to rock/metal. I think I moved away from listening to rock/metal to other genres simply due to the Sennheisers. So I bought the DT 770 to compensate where the Sennheisers lacked. However, the DT770 really lack at where the sennheisers shine.

While I like the bass of the DT 770s and its warm signature (after some equalizing) and don't mind some coloring, the mids are severely lacking in my opinion. They sound hollow and it feels like they are not reproducing all of the music. I have been driving the headphones through my Hp envy laptop and my smartphone and the loudness is more than enough. Due to the differing opinions about the necessity of dac/amps in head-fi, I can't tell if dac/amp is going to make any difference.

So, audio enthusiasts of Head-fi, do you suggest giving amp/dac a try or get a different pair of headphones? Is amp going to make the sound a tad brighter/fuller  or at least bring out the mids? I am looking towards the open DT990 if I return my current pair.

Edit: for anybody stumbling on this thread, please ignore my comments about the dt770 severely lacking mids if you are considering buying them. It might have more to do with dt770 being closed headphones than they actually lacking the mids. Also, I do not have ears good enough to tell anything more than the obvious differences.


Edited by charoze - 10/29/13 at 8:59pm
post #2 of 13
Hi charoze and welcome to the forum. Choosing headphones is difficult. I had a set of Sennheiser HD555s for several years and I found them fine for rock. Although I now much prefer my HD595s generally. The HD555 although good headphones have a narrower frequency range than more expensive models. The HD595 does have less soundstage however it makes up for this in other ways. The frequency curve for Beyerdynamic's DT770 is a little odd, plenty of bass (and low frequency bass) but a dip in the in the mid bass region. Beyerdynamic's DT990s are extra bass and treble headphones (without the dip in mid-bass) which you won't want because the mids will be recessed. I would try some HD598s.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the reply. Maybe I can't get what I am looking for at my price point. I wanted something with little more bass without sacrificing the mids and highs. Is HD 598 really an upgrade over hd555? If hd 598 has noticeable difference in soundstage as well as some improvement in bass over hd555, I will get the 598.

I have heard that HD595 is hardly an upgrade from 555 and hd 598 hardly from 595. If its any different, than I already love the 598s for their looks.

post #4 of 13

Maybe first try plugging the DT770 Pro 80-ohm into a different source?

Do you have access to a receiver?

It would be nice to establish if the DT770 sound is just not to your liking or if the HP Envy laptop just lacks the power to properly drive the DT770s.

 

Chances are the HP Envy Laptop would not do a good job of driving 250-ohm headphones (DT990).

 

You might consider returning the DT770s and get the Gemini HSR-1000 (Takstar Pro 80) closed headphones ($50-$60)

They are 60-Ohm, so should be a little easier for the HP Envy to drive.

post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by charoze View Post

I have heard that HD595 is hardly an upgrade from 555 and hd 598 hardly from 595.
I found the HD595 to be much more to my liking than the HD555. admittedly less soundstage but nicer mid range and more bass extension. Sennheisers HD650 are known to be very smooth, bassy headphones but fairly expensive.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Maybe first try plugging the DT770 Pro 80-ohm into a different source?

Do you have access to a receiver?

It would be nice to establish if the DT770 sound is just not to your liking or if the HP Envy laptop just lacks the power to properly drive the DT770s.

 

Chances are the HP Envy Laptop would not do a good job of driving 250-ohm headphones (DT990).

Unfortunately, I do not have a receiver at this point. I did get the feeling that the headphones are not driven properly. Not all the frequencies scale up linearly when I increase the volume on my laptop, even though it gets pretty loud. HP supplied its buggy audio driver with high bass equalization to make things worse. The driver sound is itself inconsistent and is  clearly different from my nokia lumia. 

I need an amp even if I get a different pair of headphones, I just don't know if something like fiio e10 or e11 will cut it.

I thought I will like warmer sound and that was the reason for getting the beyers. On top of that, the 770s were supposedly open sounding for a closed headphone. To me, the 770s feel like they are not playing all of the music. You seem to own the beyer 770, so can you tell what difference in sound, if any, you hear from an amplified source as opposed something like a smartphone unamped?

Quote:
I found the HD595 to be much more to my liking than the HD555. admittedly less soundstage but nicer mid range and more bass extension. Sennheisers HD650 are known to be very smooth, bassy headphones but fairly expensive.

Sennheiser 650 would be my first choice if I could afford it. I had planned on getting HD598 from a long time. But it seemed like hd500 series is not favored by head-fiers too much. By bass extension, I suppose you mean go down the frequency range, like less than 15 or 5hz. That wouldn't make any difference, would it? Or, do you mean it represents lower frequencies, like below 50hz, better?


Edited by charoze - 10/27/13 at 1:02pm
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by charoze View Post
 

Unfortunately, I do not have a receiver at this point. I did get the feeling that the headphones are not driven properly. Not all the frequencies scale up linearly when I increase the volume on my laptop, even though it gets pretty loud. HP supplied its buggy audio driver with high bass equalization to make things worse. The driver sound is itself inconsistent and is  clearly different from my Nokia Lumia. 

I need an amp even if I get a different pair of headphones, I just don't know if something like FiiO E10 or E11 will cut it.

I thought I will like warmer sound and that was the reason for getting the Beyers. On top of that, the 770s were supposedly open sounding for a closed headphone. To me, the 770s feel like they are not playing all of the music. You seem to own the Beyer 770, so can you tell what difference in sound, if any, you hear from an amplified source as opposed something like a smartphone unamped?

Both the E10 and E11 can drive the 80-Ohm DT770s, with power to spare.

The E10's WM8740 DAC chip, should also be noticeably better the the HP Envy's DAC chip.

 

Later today when I'm around my DT770s, I'll try them with my HTC Inspire 4G and Sansa Clip Zip.

post #8 of 13
DT based full size Beyers need an amp. Hate to break that news to you. Have your looked at the Sony MA900 or CALs if you need closed. Order a pair of HM5 pads for the CALs and you will have a wonderful headphone that is cheaper then your Beyer and will run on anything and is portable to boot. Just some more suggestions to add to your list.
Just a quick addition I don't hate Beyers I love them but they like current from the 32 to 600. I have the DT 990 600 and pro and have heard the Dt770 (which I want a pair).
post #9 of 13

Buy a MAC, I'm serious!!   My audio out makes the Beyers come to life, amp less.  No but seriously, Most people really do need an amp to make the Beyers shine.  I'm lucky as my MAC has a rebranded Wolfson Dac built in under Apples own name + It has enough output to RAWK!!!  The old saying that SOURCE matters is really true.  Look into getting a cheap little amp, maybe a E10 as mentioned above.   What's your budget etc?  There are even better options but the E10 and some EQ works wonders.

 

Wanted to add, the 990's mids are even more back.


Edited by Magicman74 - 10/27/13 at 4:42pm
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 

 

So, after trying my current music collection on these phones and being disappointed, I decided to try my decade old collection of European trance, electronics on these phones. Now I understand that I stopped listening to those genres simply due to my audio equipment. I liked those songs when I had a 5.1 home theater system. Then I moved away and on my sennheisers, the songs simply didn't sound fun to listen to. I still love my sennheisers and I love listening to classical, vocals, soft rock on them. But my beyers are reviving my old taste in music.

Quote:
DT based full size Beyers need an amp. Hate to break that news to you. Have your looked at the Sony MA900 or CALs if you need closed. Order a pair of HM5 pads for the CALs and you will have a wonderful headphone that is cheaper then your Beyer and will run on anything and is portable to boot. Just some more suggestions to add to your list.
Just a quick addition I don't hate Beyers I love them but they like current from the 32 to 600. I have the DT 990 600 and pro and have heard the Dt770 (which I want a pair).

Yeah, I don't know why I couldn't get it into my head that an 80 ohm headphone will need an amp. I will get an amp and see how I like these phones with them. I still have a 25 days returning window, but I might just stick with these phones.

Quote:
Buy a MAC, I'm serious!!   My audio out makes the Beyers come to life, amp less.  No but seriously, Most people really do need an amp to make the Beyers shine.  I'm lucky as my MAC has a rebranded Wolfson Dac built in under Apples own name + It has enough output to RAWK!!!  The old saying that SOURCE matters is really true.  Look into getting a cheap little amp, maybe a E10 as mentioned above.   What's your budget etc?  There are even better options but the E10 and some EQ works wonders.

 

Wanted to add, the 990's mids are even more back.

Mac is not within my budget but an e10 is. I bought my hp envy for gaming, I have always thought MACs are overpriced, but my next laptop is probably going to be a MAC because of their reliability and build. For now, I can't justify spending more than 60-70 on an amp.

post #11 of 13
Sennheiser HD555 freq response 15-28kHz
Sennheiser HD595 freq response 12-38.5kHz

only numbers, the HD595 has a bit more bass punch as well but it won't be as much as the DT770 or DT990. Some Headfiers consider Sennheiser HD500/600 series to be 'boring' headphones prefering ones with an aggresive attack, forward midrange and high colouration. It depends whether headphones to you are monitoring headphones, neutralish polite or warm headphones or something that has had many parameters adjusted to alter the artists original recording.
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 

Thanks to everybody on this thread for trying to help. I have figured I won't get the improvements I am looking for with ~$200 headphones. I will return the beyers  and stay with my hd555 for now. Maybe I will get some higher end headphones a month or two later. I did order the fiio e11, so will test them with dt770 before returning the phones. I will post if I see any differences.

This thread is probably dead by now, but for anybody stumbling on this thread, please ignore my comments about the dt770 severely lacking mids if you are considering buying them. It might have more to do with dt770 being closed headphones than they actually lacking the mids. Also, I do not have ears good enough to tell anything more than the obvious differences.

post #13 of 13

Was there any difference with the e11?

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