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Oppo PM-1: A New Planar Magnetic Headphone! - Page 32

post #466 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post
 

... I think the Hifiman lineup is going to be the interesting barometer since the HE-400 and HE-500 currently hold a sweet spot for value in the ortho lineups and in general (and are made in China). 

 

This is the right comparison company to make with: HiFiMan. I have the HE-400 and love the rich sound connected to the Audio-GD Compass 2. The new headphone from Oppo better be good at least in comparison to well known brands. 

 

Whilst I've been looking for better headhphones, DAC + amp, the cost vs. incremental increase in sound quality has me pause and think about it in more general terms.

 

Yes, Oppo has an excellent reputation for their universal players (I have their BDP-93), the customer service and the regular firmware up-dates to keep the unit current is a key feature that differentiates Oppo from other manufacturers.

 

How would Oppo allow fine tuning of the headphone to improve sound quality will be an interesting concept to be considered. 

 

Steve

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post #467 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post

Secondly, while you might want a flat line on a FR graph for a speaker, that is not the case for a headphone. From headroom:
"Headphones also need to be rolled-off in the highs to compensate for the drivers being so close to the ear; a gently sloping flat line from 1kHz to about 8-10dB down at 20kHz is about right."
Perhaps do a little research before telling people they're "just talking non-sense."

 

The (compensated) frequency response graph attempts to visualize how a person would perceive the frequency response. HeadRoom has a problem with their graphs if they need to indicate that a non-flat graph of theirs corresponds to perceptively flat sound - although to be fair, in the quote you have there, they say nothing explicitly about perceptively flat and could as well be expressing fancy for a darker sound.

 

Also, as I said, there's no single flat graph; what holds true for HeadRoom won't hold true for anyone else's graphs, roughly. You might find cases where you're instructed to look for an upwards tilt in the treble as an indication of neutrality.

post #468 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post

First of all, I never said a flat 20Hz to 20kHz headphone exists - I said I doubt it would be the goal of headphone creators to make such a headphone. Secondly, while you might want a flat line on a FR graph for a speaker, that is not the case for a headphone. From headroom:
"Headphones also need to be rolled-off in the highs to compensate for the drivers being so close to the ear; a gently sloping flat line from 1kHz to about 8-10dB down at 20kHz is about right."
Perhaps do a little research before telling people they're "just talking non-sense."

/Facepalm, why are you treating Headroom as the end be all FR graph source everything else? They are just one source hosting measured headphones.

Please point to me where there has been a purely flat measured headphone that can correlate to nonsense such as a: flat measured headphone will have emphasis on this part of the sound that will sound warm or brighter or darker? You're also forgetting the amplification which can greatly affect how headphones measure. No two things measure identical.

I don't know about you but Headroom surely doesn't speak for me. Ever wondered what the FR graphs of the Orpheus or Luis' Paradox looked like? Can you then tell me achieving a flat response is strictly for speakers?

You might want to choosing your facts wisely when presenting it as a form of basis for an argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

The (compensated) frequency response graph attempts to visualize how a person would perceive the frequency response. HeadRoom has a problem with their graphs if they need to indicate that a non-flat graph of theirs corresponds to perceptively flat sound - although to be fair, in the quote you have there, they say nothing explicitly about perceptively flat and could as well be expressing fancy for a darker sound.

Also, as I said, there's no single flat graph; what holds true for HeadRoom won't hold true for anyone else's graphs, roughly. You might find cases where you're instructed to look for an upwards tilt in the treble as an indication of neutrality.

Thanks you just the post I was looking for.
Edited by DefQon - 10/22/13 at 4:59am
post #469 of 1702

I've been with Audeze products for the past year or so. If they can get their own sound signature like the LCD-2 did and they're comfortable for long sessions? I'd pick a pair up in a heartbeat. as much as i love my audeze headphones they lack in the comfort department. these looks very comfortable.

post #470 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandaonslaught View Post
 

I've been with Audeze products for the past year or so. If they can get their own sound signature like the LCD-2 did and they're comfortable for long sessions? I'd pick a pair up in a heartbeat. as much as i love my audeze headphones they lack in the comfort department. these looks very comfortable.

 

I'm starting to think I'm truly the only one who finds the LCD2s comfortable lol. The new pads they use are just amazing, IMO...I have been wearing these headphones for hours on end over the last two weeks. There MUST be others out there!!! lol

post #471 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post
 

 

I'm starting to think I'm truly the only one who finds the LCD2s comfortable lol. The new pads they use are just amazing, IMO...I have been wearing these headphones for hours on end over the last two weeks. There MUST be others out there!!! lol

It's all about perspective.

 

If you are used to wearing Grados, then LCD2s (esp with the new softer pads) are a heaven-sent. For someone else who might be used to wearing HD800s all day, it's the other way around.

post #472 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

It's all about perspective.

 

If you are used to wearing Grados, then LCD2s (esp with the new softer pads) are a heaven-sent. For someone else who might be used to wearing HD800s all day, it's the other way around.

 

I'm used to Grados, but also the T1s, which are the headphones I find most comfortable. But yeah, I agree with what you're saying...I don't find the Grados UNcomfortable necessarily, but I also wouldn't give them high scores in that department. I dunno, I just don't tend to have comfort issues like others do when it comes to this stuff. The only one I REALLY didn't like was the Sennheiser 518s. 

 

These PM-1s look to be uber comfortable, so that will be fantastic. 

post #473 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

It's all about perspective.

 

If you are used to wearing Grados, then LCD2s (esp with the new softer pads) are a heaven-sent. For someone else who might be used to wearing HD800s all day, it's the other way around.

Yeah I come from AKG k702 annies/ t5ps. I find that the LCD2s aren't glasses friendly like my other ones. I end up shifting them a lot, but I deal with it for their sound.

post #474 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post


/Facepalm, why are you treating Headroom as the end be all FR graph source everything else? They are just one source hosting measured headphones.

Please point to me where there has been a purely flat measured headphone that can correlate to nonsense such as a: flat measured headphone will have emphasis on this part of the sound that will sound warm or brighter or darker? You're also forgetting the amplification which can greatly affect how headphones measure. No two things measure identical.

I don't know about you but Headroom surely doesn't speak for me. Ever wondered what the FR graphs of the Orpheus or Luis' Paradox looked like? Can you then tell me achieving a flat response is strictly for speakers?

You might want to choosing your facts wisely when presenting it as a form of basis for an argument.
Thanks you just the post I was looking for.

I'm not treating them as the "end be all," I chose them as one example since I see their graphs posted on Head-Fi more than any other site's graphs.  It is sound logic no?  Here's another example from Dan (Mr. Speakers)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspeakers View Post
 

Now that we're starting to catch up, here is the often requested frequency response.  This is not an average, it is not smoothed, and it's a single point measurement (vs an average of multiple passes for one phone) for our master reference headphone.  We tune our phones to be within +/-2dB of this curve.

 

As usual, the rolloff that starts at about 1.5K is characteristic of our headphone measurement system, and actually this represents linear.  What's going on in the plot above 5K is very random based on micro adjustments of the phone on the test fixture.  

 

I always hesitate to put plots out as many people expect headphone measurements to look like ruler flat speaker plots, but the reality is above 1.5K peaks and troughs are part of "flat" measurements.  

 

 

I understand that people measure graphs differently, but I don't believe that it is all arbitrary. I think there must be some science behind running white noise through headphones and recording the result with a microphone. If any headphone makers want to chime in and let us know if a flat line from 20Hz to 20kHz is their goal, that would be helpful.  

 

It makes sense to me that with headphone drivers being next to our ears, a rolloff would be more ideal from 1kHz to 20kHz than completely flat. I'm only speaking from my experience working with sound, I am not claiming to be an expert in any way. I am more than happy to be completely wrong on this and many other topics. It's much more important to me to learn and increase my knowledge than to be right.

 

This will be my last post on this topic as I don't feel this conversation is constructive. I love discussion and debate and even disagreement as this often helps to bring out truth. What isn't helpful to me is when debate turns into argument, with accompanying statements like "nonsense" "facepalm" etc. Then we go from constructive discussion to a battle of egos.  And it's not just in this case, I've seen more of this type of unhelpful argument going on in other threads recently. This is disappointing to me since I joined Head-Fi because there seemed to be a lot less of that here than on other forums. I strongly believe that there can be lively discussion and disagreement without a loss of civility and basic respect for each other.

post #475 of 1702

When Dan was showing the Alpha Dog at the Dallas meet, he told me that he uses frequency response curves as a relative check for quality control.  The rough quote was "All curves are relative" as I remember it.  This I totally agree with.  One can use frequency response curves from the same measurement setup (and preferably the same measurer too) to compare the differences between headphones, if one starts with response curves of headphones in one's possession.  I have done this to very much great success, to the point where it can help me with buying decisions (i.e. save me some money).   

 

Back OT:  I would LOVE to see Tyll at innerfidelity measure the PM-1.  He's got lots and lots and lots - and lots of frequency response curves against which to compare!

post #476 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post
 

It's much more important to me to learn and increase my knowledge than to be right.

 

You may have misunderstood the basics, so for you and anyone else interested, the guy who does measurements for HeadRoom has an article on measuring headphones at InnerFidelity that, along with some active brain participation from the reader, should make things a bit more clear.

post #477 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post
 

It's much more important to me to learn and increase my knowledge than to be right.

 

You may have misunderstood the basics, so for you and anyone else interested, the guy who does measurements for HeadRoom has an article on measuring headphones at InnerFidelity that, along with some active brain participation from the reader, should make things a bit more clear.

 

Oh blast! I was hoping to read it without the active participation part.

 

 

:p

post #478 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post
 

 

I'm starting to think I'm truly the only one who finds the LCD2s comfortable lol. The new pads they use are just amazing, IMO...I have been wearing these headphones for hours on end over the last two weeks. There MUST be others out there!!! lol

I think they're crazily comfortable as well.

post #479 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by hojomojo96 View Post
 

I think they're crazily comfortable as well.

I find the HE 400 and J$money Pads to be uber comfy? Does that help at all xD 

post #480 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post
 

 

I'm starting to think I'm truly the only one who finds the LCD2s comfortable lol. The new pads they use are just amazing, IMO...I have been wearing these headphones for hours on end over the last two weeks. There MUST be others out there!!! lol

 

The pads are very comfortable. It's just the weight and bulk of the headphone...like having a brick on your head.

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