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Oppo PM-1: A New Planar Magnetic Headphone! - Page 169

post #2521 of 2530

.5 to 1dB is the just detectable threshold for volume variations in tones. There have been listening tests that have established the thresholds of human hearing and a simple google search will pull up the info. It's very useful to know what those are when you look at specs for home audio equipment. Then you know whether a difference in a number one way or the other is audible or not. If you can't hear it, it doesn't matter.

post #2522 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

.5 to 1dB is the just detectable threshold for volume variations in tones. There have been listening tests that have established the thresholds of human hearing and a simple google search will pull up the info. It's very useful to know what those are when you look at specs for home audio equipment. Then you know whether a difference in a number one way or the other is audible or not. If you can't hear it, it doesn't matter.

 

You are getting caught in the 'it may be a minor difference, but if it's audible to me, maybe it's a HUGE difference to me' argument. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I admire your resolve, but there is really no arguing with that.

post #2523 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

 

I don't see that in the chart at all. I see a nice tightly bunched group of lines all the way out to the end above 10kHz where it starts to drop off sharply. Maybe I don't have my glasses on... each of the black horizontal lines is 5dB, right? The way I read it, there is about a 2dB spread at 1-3kHz. That could just be measurement error.

 

What measurement on the timing difference? A ms? Three ms?

 

Each line across the Y-axis is 10 dB.  To compute this you subtract values, so 15 dB - 5 dB = 10 dB; 5 dB - (-5 dB) = 10 dB; etc.  As was mentioned before, doubling your estimates of the difference between the responses in that range will give approximately what I said from the start it's just that I can read graphs.  I find Khan academy a good place to learn/touch up on stuff: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/cc-sixth-grade-math/cc-6th-data-statistics/cc-6th-line-picto-graphs/v/u08-l1-t2-we2-reading-line-graphs

 

Are these still "flat as a stone"?  Do pads still make zero difference to the sound of a headphone?  You keep ignoring these questions and only respond to specific arguments you think you still have a leg to stand on.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

None of the different pads in the chart I was referring to would change the overall sound signature of the headphones. If you are trying to correct response problems, doing it with these pads would be a remarkably ineffectual way to do it. Using an equalizer would be much more precise, and much more effective. Choose the pads for comfort and EQ for sound.

 

Straw man...  Nobody said these pads would change the "overall sound signature of the headphones", just that they make an audible difference to the sound.  Big difference there.

post #2524 of 2530

Each line is 10dB, but there is no zero line, so the first lines on either side of the baseline of the response are 5. I wasn't even good in math, and I can see that!

post #2525 of 2530

Lack of a "zero line" is irrelevant when we were discussing the dB difference between the response lines.  The differences are absolute...doesn't matter if they draw lines across every 20 dB, 5 dB, or 0.1 dB.

 

Quote:
 Are these still "flat as a stone"?  Do pads still make zero difference to the sound of a headphone?  You keep ignoring these questions and only respond to specific arguments you think you still have a leg to stand on.
post #2526 of 2530

The first line above the invisible zero line is +5dB, the first line below is -5dB. All of those different colors will sound the same.

post #2527 of 2530
Will argue until he's blue in the face someone said in the recent past wink.gif
post #2528 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

Each line is 10dB, but there is no zero line, so the first lines on either side of the baseline of the response are 5. I wasn't even good in math, and I can see that!

 

Wait, what?  The lines follow the function f(y) = 10y - 5...  ...-15, -5, 5, 15...  The 10 means that it goes up 10 dB at each step...  The baseline is is in the set {...-15, -5, 5, 15...} (no other lines are marked), and the next point is 10 dB away.  No clue where you got the 5 from, and I'm good at math.  

 

There is an invisible 0 line, obviously, but it's not marked, so the distance between the actual, marked (note, no invisible lines) are 10 dB.  

post #2529 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

The first line above the invisible zero line is +5dB, the first line below is -5dB. All of those different colors will sound the same.

 

When discussing the difference (difference = subtraction) between FR measurements, where the "zero line" is makes no difference.  In reality, Tyll measures at something like 90 dB or 100 dB; I'm sure he'd do away with the "zero line" but then he'd prob have people who can't read graphs saying a HP has "97 dB of treble".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

Will argue until he's blue in the face someone said in the recent past wink.gif

 

Yup, and I predicted what he'd do regarding ignoring points people make...looks like we have another "BS classic" on our hands.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685704/oppo-pm-1-a-new-planar-magnetic-headphone/2250#post_10773365

 

Quote:
 Are these still "flat as a stone"?  Do pads still make zero difference to the sound of a headphone?  You keep ignoring these questions and only respond to specific arguments you think you still have a leg to stand on.
post #2530 of 2530

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Edited by rgs9200m - 9/30/14 at 6:04pm
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