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Oppo PM-1: A New Planar Magnetic Headphone! - Page 112

post #1666 of 2530

Wouldn't some people prefer a certain sound signature though? e.g. boosted bass so EDM will be more enjoyable.

post #1667 of 2530

I really wish that was the case as then there will be ONE headphone that everybody like the most and that everybody buy and Head-Fi will be force to close shop...and then there will be peace on earth...:D 

post #1668 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by DairyProduce View Post

Wouldn't some people prefer a certain sound signature though? e.g. boosted bass so EDM will be more enjoyable.

Yes, and that would likely be very different for each person. The approach right now in audiophilia is to have a million different colors of headphones to pick from, because that encourages the spending of a great deal of money, swapping colors in and out until you find the right one. But it would be a lot easier and cheaper if there was just one totally accurate headphone, like the PM-1s. Then headphone amp and DAP manufacturers could just add a good digital equalizer and everyone could construct their own ideal curve more precisely than by trying to come up with different headphone coloration by trial and error.
Edited by bigshot - 4/23/14 at 10:14am
post #1669 of 2530

I dont want to drag this too far OT but preferable reproduction isnt simple about FR - second and third order distortion also plays a role in how sound is perceived (check out Nelson Pass's article on this on his website).  If you think it is simply a matter of flat FR, let the guys at Harman Industries know that they are wasting their time in linking subjective preferences to objective measurements, and all they have to do is map the Fletcher-Munson curve onto headphones and they are done.

 

This whole "make it a flat perceived FR curve and everyone will love it" is a little too simplistic.   

 

Now, back to the PM-1s.  My own ship out of the US today and get in by Monday - I'll only be able to get them next Thu...

post #1670 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post

I dont want to drag this too far OT but preferable reproduction isnt simple about FR - second and third order distortion also plays a role in how sound is perceived (check out Nelson Pass's article on this on his website).  If you think it is simply a matter of flat FR, let the guys at Harman Industries know that they are wasting their time in linking subjective preferences to objective measurements, and all they have to do is map the Fletcher-Munson curve onto headphones and they are done.

This whole "make it a flat perceived FR curve and everyone will love it" is a little too simplistic.   

Now, back to the PM-1s.  My own ship out of the US today and get in by Monday - I'll only be able to get them next Thu...

+1
post #1671 of 2530

I've been doing this 40 years..... not one single measurement has ever offered a complete or competent explanation of what I'm hearing. Since measurement can't fully explain the overall sound experience? The "art" of design is still of importance.

 

What folks are experiencing after a week of burn? After two weeks? A Month? The sound of the PM-1 is experiencing a morph's of sorts. Having it three days? Offering a review? Waste of space..... 

post #1672 of 2530
I've been using the PM-1 for months with no change in the sound at all. Even from sample to sample there is very little difference.

If you folks want a headphone that meets the standards of "perfection"... audibly flat response, inaudible levels of distortion, plenty of dynamics... the PM-1s are it. I would bet that you could take a good digital EQ and make them sound pretty much like any other brand or model of headphone at normal listening volumes.

In theory, there are a million different aspects of sound reproduction. But all aspects are not created equal. Frequencies are what we actually hear. Balancing them properly is the lion's share of the battle. Lousy headphones might have problems with distortion, but once you reach a certain quality level, distortion isn't an issue any more. The importance of timing issues are greatly exaggerated. And although there might be differences in dynamics, most headphones are liable to be worse in that regard than the PM-1s, not better.

Specs are a useful way of getting an idea of how something sounds, particularly the frequency response curve. But you have to know how to read it, and the specs have to have been measured fairly. A lot of manufacturers cheat their specs in one way or another.
Edited by bigshot - 4/23/14 at 11:41am
post #1673 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

I've been using the PM-1 for months with no change in the sound at all. Even from sample to sample there is very little difference.

If you folks want a headphone that meets the standards of "perfection"... audibly flat response, inaudible levels of distortion, plenty of dynamics... the PM-1s are it. I would bet that you could take a good digital EQ and make them sound pretty much like any other brand or model of headphone at normal listening volumes.

In theory, there are a million different aspects of sound reproduction. But all aspects are not created equal. Frequencies are what we actually hear. Balancing them properly is the lion's share of the battle. Lousy headphones might have problems with distortion, but once you reach a certain quality level, distortion isn't an issue any more. The importance of timing issues are greatly exaggerated. And although there might be differences in dynamics, most headphones are liable to be worse in that regard than the PM-1s, not better.

Specs are a useful way of getting an idea of how something sounds, particularly the frequency response curve. But you have to know how to read it, and the specs have to have been measured fairly. A lot of manufacturers cheat their specs in one way or another.

 

Perfection for old people with hearing deficiencies in the upper range, you mean?

post #1674 of 2530
Hardly.

Beyond 13-14kHz, there really isn't anything to hear in music anyway. The last octave of sound (10kHz-20kHz) is basically a buffer zone. It's too high to be perceived as a musical note, so it exists only as noise. The only thing you're liable to hear up beyond where the PM-1s roll off are upper harmonics in cymbal crashes that are very faint and masked by the loud crash below anyway. Zilch. Nothing. Nada. If you're going to worry about anything, worry about the six other octaves in the range of human hearing. Those are the ones that count.

This is a perfect illustration of what I was talking about... reading specs as abstract numbers without understanding what those numbers mean to the sound.
post #1675 of 2530

^ Aight man... if you say so :rolleyes:

post #1676 of 2530
Git yessef a digital equalizer and find out for yessef!
post #1677 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Hardly.

Beyond 13-14kHz, there really isn't anything to hear in music anyway. The last octave of sound (10kHz-20kHz) is basically a buffer zone. It's too high to be perceived as a musical note, so it exists only as noise. The only thing you're liable to hear up beyond where the PM-1s roll off are upper harmonics in cymbal crashes that are very faint and masked by the loud crash below anyway. Zilch. Nothing. Nada. If you're going to worry about anything, worry about the six other octaves in the range of human hearing. Those are the ones that count.

This is a perfect illustration of what I was talking about... reading specs as abstract numbers without understanding what those numbers mean to the sound.

 

Wait? Weren't you the guy who said the first harmonic is @ 1.5x the natural frequency? :etysmile: 

post #1678 of 2530

Anybody care to share their EQ settings to turn my PM-1 into a HD800  HE90? Thanks in advance.


Edited by zenpunk - 4/23/14 at 1:52pm
post #1679 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Well here is another spec that most people here aren't aware of... For people with normal human hearing (not damaged), sound is pretty much the same for everyone. I've seen charts that measure the sensitivity to specific frequencies on multiple people, and they don't vary more than 4 or 5dB. Listening to music, a difference like that would be barely noticeable.

Good sound is good sound. If something has a flat response, low distortion, a low noise floor and a wide dynamic range, it's high fidelity sound and it will sound natural to everyone.

This is so OT for me to respond to.

 

Is there an appropriate thread in the Sound Science forum for this specific topic?  This is a patently false statement, incorrect, and without a doubt not true.  As much as I enjoy reading your assessment of the PM-1...

post #1680 of 2530
Your wish is my command! I'm interested to see what the answers to this are too.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/715797/everybody-has-different-ears-but-how-different
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