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Oppo PM-1: A New Planar Magnetic Headphone! - Page 108

post #1606 of 2487
I'm curious if there is any way to apply a Fletcher Munson correction curve to this to deteremine what the *audible* response is throughout the range. My guess is that the section from 1kHz to 10khz pretty closely follows the sensitivity of the ear to those frequencies. I've never thought about headphone response measurements before. I didn't realize that the graphical representation was so abstract. It can give you an idea of what it sounds like, but it really doesn't represent what it actually sounds like with ears. I never realized that before.
post #1607 of 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

I agree with bigshot here, I care about sub-bass a lot and really it is only relevant down to maybe 25 Hz or so. As long as the drop-off from 35 Hz to 25 Hz is fairly shallow, sub-bass extension is perfect in practice.
+1
Agree fully for heaphones..
post #1608 of 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post


... I didn't realize that the graphical representation was so abstract. It can give you an idea of what it sounds like, but it really doesn't represent what it actually sounds like with ears. I never realized that before.
Add to this the complexity of different ear "types", where sensitivity to sibilance is an issue.

Even IEMs are not immune, with differing ear canals..

Oppo seemed to strike a good balance.
post #1609 of 2487
I think that a lot of the back and forth over what the correct correction to use is and shapes of ear canals just muddies the waters unnecessarily. The range of normal human hearing from person to person doesn't vary all that much. It seems to me that finding some way to represent *audible* frequency response, not just *measured" would be very useful, even if it might not be as precise.

These charts are great at comparing one headphone to another. But it would be better if you looked at them and knew how they would sound to you. Frequency response is most of what makes a headphone sound the way it does. It would be helpful if the measurements directly related to the sound.

When I EQ my speakers with a paremetric equalizer, I'm presented with an adjustable response curve where flat represents flat. I'm betting displayed like that, the Oppos would look pretty doggone flat. But here, there's a big long slope down from 1kHz. That is because of the way the data is plotted on the graph, not because there is actually a long fadeout in the mids and treble. If we had something that was audibly flat measured this way, what would the curve look like?
post #1610 of 2487

Some PM-1 impressions from a few hours listening last night. (These are the aspects that stand out to me.)

 

1. They deal very well with digital glare, not totally eliminating it but making is listenable and unpainful to me (no digital "ringing" in the lower treble). (Maybe it's expected from a company formally called Oppo Digital.)

 

2. They have a feeling of natural ambience in the lowest of the midrange that is tight and fast and transparent (that is what makes it sound natural to me).

 

3. There is speed and rhythm, and multiple drum taps are heard distinctly with good pacing.

 

4. The overall impression is more of a stat phone than a planar. I am very much reminded of my former Stax 007 Mark 1s (I had them for 7 years). These similarities include the simultaneous felt-like silkiness and continuousness

in vocals and sustained notes, along with very nice detail that is not hyped up at all.

 

5. Continuing on the stat-like sound, The Oppos keep reminding me of an SR009 signature (I  own these now). They are not quite there of course, but they are the closest thing yet to their sound signature.

Again, after a direct comparison on the same source and music, the quick separation of notes like in percussion with a quick series of taps or a guitar strumming is very fine. While it's stunning and awesome on the 009,

it is musical, believable, and very very good on the Oppos. I could easily believe the PM-1 was in the SR009 family. I would say this SR007 < PM1 < SR009. If this was a Stax model in here I would believe it.

The big but firm natural bass of the PM1 beat the SR007 to me.

 

6. The upper highs do seem not to reach to the sky, but I find this to be a blessing so often that helps with digital nasties that it may even be a positive. These phones are like candy, and I just listened for about 3 hours and

they won my heart over and I just wanted more. It is definitely a heart over head thing.

 

7. I think what I like about good Stax sound when it's done right is that combination of sweetness, detail, and speed, and these are the three qualities I feel best describe in the Oppo PM-1.

 

[System: EMM XDS1 cdp, Oppo 105D for DVD, Apex Pinnacle amp, cables from Stealth and Cardas,  Shunyata Power cables and line conditioner.]


Edited by rgs9200m - 4/19/14 at 11:04am
post #1611 of 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post
 

Some PM-1 impressions from a few hours listening last night. (These are the aspects that stand out to me.)

 

1. They deal very well with digital glare, not totally eliminating it but making is listenable and unpainful to me (no digital "ringing" in the lower treble). (Maybe it's expected from a company formally called Oppo Digital.)

 

2. They have a feeling of natural ambience in the lowest of the midrange that is tight and fast and transparent (that is what makes it sound natural to me).

 

3. There is speed and rhythm, and multiple drum taps are heard distinctly with good pacing.

 

4. The overall impression is more of a stat phone than a planar. I am very much reminded of my former Stax 007 Mark 1s (I had them for 7 years). These similarities include the simultaneous felt-like silkiness and continuousness

in vocals and sustained notes, along with very nice detail that is not hyped up at all.

 

5. Continuing on the stat-like sound, The Oppos keep reminding me of an SR009 signature (I  own these now). They are not quite there of course, but they are the closest thing yet to their sound signature.

Again, after a direct comparison on the same source and music, the quick separation of notes like in percussion with a quick series of taps or a guitar strumming is very fine. While it's stunning and awesome on the 009,

it is musical, believable, and very very good on the Oppos. I could easily believe the PM-1 was in the SR009 family. I would say this SR007 < PM1 < SR009. If this was a Stax model in here I would believe it.

The big but firm natural bass of the PM1 beat the SR007 to me.

 

6. The upper highs do seem not to reach to the sky, but I find this to be a blessing so often that helps with digital nasties that it may even be a positive. These phones are like candy, and I just listened for about 3 hours and

they won my heart over and I just wanted more. It is definitely a heart over head thing.

 

7. I think what I like about good Stax sound when it's done right is that combination of sweetness, detail, and speed, and these are the three qualities I feel best describe in the Oppo PM-1.

 

[System: EMM XDS1 cdp, Oppo 105D for DVD, Apex Pinnacle amp, cables from Stealth and Cardas,  Shunyata Power cables and line conditioner.]

Do you plan on getting a 560? people are commenting it also has a stat-like sound, I'd love to see a comparison of PM-1, 560, and sr-009. Looks like these new planars have really stepped up their game.

post #1612 of 2487

'not sure about the 560s. I have HE500s that I like but honestly don't use too often at the moment.

post #1613 of 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Some PM-1 impressions from a few hours listening last night. (These are the aspects that stand out to me.)

1. They deal very well with digital glare, not totally eliminating it but making is listenable and unpainful to me (no digital "ringing" in the lower treble). (Maybe it's expected from a company formally called Oppo Digital.)

2. They have a feeling of natural ambience in the lowest of the midrange that is tight and fast and transparent (that is what makes it sound natural to me).

3. There is speed and rhythm, and multiple drum taps are heard distinctly with good pacing.

4. The overall impression is more of a stat phone than a planar. I am very much reminded of my former Stax 007 Mark 1s (I had them for 7 years). These similarities include the simultaneous felt-like silkiness and continuousness
in vocals and sustained notes, along with very nice detail that is not hyped up at all.

5. Continuing on the stat-like sound, The Oppos keep reminding me of an SR009 signature (I  own these now). They are not quite there of course, but they are the closest thing yet to their sound signature.
Again, after a direct comparison on the same source and music, the quick separation of notes like in percussion with a quick series of taps or a guitar strumming is very fine. While it's stunning and awesome on the 009,
it is musical, believable, and very very good on the Oppos. I could easily believe the PM-1 was in the SR009 family. I would say this SR007 < PM1 < SR009. If this was a Stax model in here I would believe it.
The big but firm natural bass of the PM1 beat the SR007 to me.

6. The upper highs do seem not to reach to the sky, but I find this to be a blessing so often that helps with digital nasties that it may even be a positive. These phones are like candy, and I just listened for about 3 hours and
they won my heart over and I just wanted more. It is definitely a heart over head thing.

7. I think what I like about good Stax sound when it's done right is that combination of sweetness, detail, and speed, and these are the three qualities I feel best describe in the Oppo PM-1.

[System: EMM XDS1 cdp, Oppo 105D for DVD, Apex Pinnacle amp, cables from Stealth and Cardas,  Shunyata Power cables and line conditioner.]
I had this nagging feeling that the oppo sounded just unlike anything and your post hit the nail on the head..
I would to agree fully with this assessment except I only herd the 009 once so can't comment on this but I must agree with your view regardless
post #1614 of 2487

Thanks Maxx! 

post #1615 of 2487

I can blame this thread for making room for Oppo to charge even more for their upcoming product. At this point it is quite stupid to keep creating an aura of doom so it makes easier for the brand to elevate their MSRP sky high. All we do here is speculate about something we know little about. Shame on us!!!!

post #1616 of 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx134 View Post


I had this nagging feeling that the oppo sounded just unlike anything and your post hit the nail on the head..
I would to agree fully with this assessment except I only herd the 009 once so can't comment on this but I must agree with your view regardless

 

They remind me a lot of the Audio Technica Ad2000, though not as quick or bright.

post #1617 of 2487

Tyll, thank you very much for posting here early, especially both velour and leather results! Can't wait to read more from you about these...

 

rgs200m, interesting feedback! I had hacked a comparison (when is InnerFidelity going to support headphone curve comparisons like headroom?) between PM1 and SR007mk1/SR009, just the FR, and very very dirty. The overlay isn't based on loudness so we should be careful with interpretations but suffice to say, the PM1 should provide a rather complementary tonal balance to the other two:

Now what you say about the transient response gets me very curious, the impulse and step responses provided by Tyll short very high apparent damping / short decays, differently more damped than Abyss or SR009 for instance.

 

Arnaud

post #1618 of 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post
 

Some PM-1 impressions from a few hours listening last night. (These are the aspects that stand out to me.)

 

1. They deal very well with digital glare, not totally eliminating it but making is listenable and unpainful to me (no digital "ringing" in the lower treble). (Maybe it's expected from a company formally called Oppo Digital.)

 

2. They have a feeling of natural ambience in the lowest of the midrange that is tight and fast and transparent (that is what makes it sound natural to me).

 

3. There is speed and rhythm, and multiple drum taps are heard distinctly with good pacing.

 

4. The overall impression is more of a stat phone than a planar. I am very much reminded of my former Stax 007 Mark 1s (I had them for 7 years). These similarities include the simultaneous felt-like silkiness and continuousness

in vocals and sustained notes, along with very nice detail that is not hyped up at all.

 

5. Continuing on the stat-like sound, The Oppos keep reminding me of an SR009 signature (I  own these now). They are not quite there of course, but they are the closest thing yet to their sound signature.

Again, after a direct comparison on the same source and music, the quick separation of notes like in percussion with a quick series of taps or a guitar strumming is very fine. While it's stunning and awesome on the 009,

it is musical, believable, and very very good on the Oppos. I could easily believe the PM-1 was in the SR009 family. I would say this SR007 < PM1 < SR009. If this was a Stax model in here I would believe it.

The big but firm natural bass of the PM1 beat the SR007 to me.

 

6. The upper highs do seem not to reach to the sky, but I find this to be a blessing so often that helps with digital nasties that it may even be a positive. These phones are like candy, and I just listened for about 3 hours and

they won my heart over and I just wanted more. It is definitely a heart over head thing.

 

7. I think what I like about good Stax sound when it's done right is that combination of sweetness, detail, and speed, and these are the three qualities I feel best describe in the Oppo PM-1.

 

[System: EMM XDS1 cdp, Oppo 105D for DVD, Apex Pinnacle amp, cables from Stealth and Cardas,  Shunyata Power cables and line conditioner.]

 

I just received mine yesterday so they are in the burn-in process but so far so good. I  like them. I agree with most of your comments the only thing I don't find in them is the same openness of my SR009. The soundstage IMO is smaller.

I have tried both the leather and the velour pads and I personally like the sound with the velour pads better. I think they provide better clarity and definition.

post #1619 of 2487

Well, to be honest, I don't get the full openness possible in my 009s because I just have an 007t/ii amp, but using nice NOS clear top RCA 6cg7 tubes, which I find gives me

great tonal balance, texture, and ease, but not the drama or big bass I'd expect from a BHSE or other big amp (like I heard with a WES).

I meant to mention this in my comments but I forgot.

 

The Oppo is not a big open sound; it's more intimate, but it works for me. There some definite layering and some spatial sense, but it's not paramount.

But it's an appropriate soundstage, and it simply works well to my ears for what it is.

 

For quick comparisons to other phones I have:

 

I would say the LCD3 is geared to a more profound sound, more like big floorstanding speakers, with rounded images, depth, and strong subterranean bass and even soaring highs.

I do not find my LCD3 to be dark at all, just full with bass that is never missing in action.

What did the old Hi-Fi ads used to call this sound? "Concert Hall Realism" I recall.

 

But the Oppo has more delicacy and is faster on its feet, with more bass transparency

and quicker decay. Again, this is something I associate with stats, less so with mag-planars.

 

And as for my HD800, they are all about Air and Space (like the museum I guess...). They are nice and open and precise and listenable to me when I feel like having a breath of fresh air for 

a while,  with a sound that refreshes without being harsh at all, and I enjoy them a lot and sometimes have long sessions with them, but eventually I want some more silk and liquidity.

(I remember I believe the first Sennheiser ads long ago talked about the "Open Aire" sound of the HD414 and 424 phones. The HD800s I think go back to Sennheiser's roots in this regard now that I think about it.) 

[Now I remember, on the box from my HD424 phones, it said "Open Aire" in big letters on the side; I just googled around and saw the box on ebay.]

And the HD800s, though fast, are still not as fast as the Oppo is.

 

But these 4 phones here all satisfy different parts of my brain for different reasons I've tried to spell out quickly and they are all keepers.


Edited by rgs9200m - 4/19/14 at 10:46pm
post #1620 of 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post
 

Tyll, thank you very much for posting here early, especially both velour and leather results! Can't wait to read more from you about these...

 

rgs200m, interesting feedback! I had hacked a comparison (when is InnerFidelity going to support headphone curve comparisons like headroom?) between PM1 and SR007mk1/SR009, just the FR, and very very dirty. The overlay isn't based on loudness so we should be careful with interpretations but suffice to say, the PM1 should provide a rather complementary tonal balance to the other two:

Now what you say about the transient response gets me very curious, the impulse and step responses provided by Tyll short very high apparent damping / short decays, differently more damped than Abyss or SR009 for instance.

 

Arnaud

Thanks for some hard info on how the PM-1 responds to a modest amplifier, w/r/t STAX® Earspeaker® headsets on 2kV.  From the overlay chart, the electrostats have an advantage in the mid-treble, but appropriate equalization in the 1.5-5 kHz band should narrow the gap. Definitely close enough to my requirements to be a finalist; I might very well go with the currently-in-development (as of 19 April 2014) Oppo® PM-2 on cost, if it's close enough to the SR-007 in measured performance when a sample arrives for a Head-Fi meet in the future (don't know if a development model will be ready for the July meet at San Francisco).

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