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AKG K812 Pro - Page 23

post #331 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuke990 View Post
 


I don't thing that the HD800 is a bright headphone at all. I would rather say that Audeze is airless with to much bass.

Yesterday the LCD-X arrived and after 1 minute listening it is cleaer that it is an Audeze with the typical Audeze house sound. Okay it is not as dark and veiled as a LCD-2 but the bass quantity is to much (most the time) and voices are a little bit to dark as well and sounds not neutral as it should. The bass is to terse (I don't know if it the correct word) and push the rest of the frequencies one step to the background.

I use silver cables with the LCD-Xs and I've had no problem of the sort.  The LCD-Xs, HD-800s, and T1s and my favorite headphones for classical music.  I love the LCD-Xs because they sound li,e balm to the ears (a dark mahogany sound) while retaining the extended treble necessary for classical music.  True, the soundstage is not as big as the HD800s or T1s, but it's not bad either...The Xs are one pair of euphonious cans!

post #332 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post
 

 

Exactly this.

 

But the LCD-X has excellent detail retrieval and imaging. Preferences obviously comes into play here, but also the associated gears that, in my case at least, are not best suited for darker headphones.

I see you have the O2/ODAC stack - which should be very lean and bright compared to mine - but you still enjoy the HD-800 out of them :eek:.

 

What amp / dac do you use ?

Tomorrow I will get a Bryston BHA-1 (loan device) and maybe some days later a good tube amp.

 

@figaro: "The Xs are one pair of euphonious cans!" that's right but when I listen to my music I choose the HD800 in 70% of all cases and I'm not a fan of classical music.


Edited by TheDuke990 - 12/18/13 at 9:42am
post #333 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuke990 View Post

What amp / dac do you use ?
Tomorrow I will get a Bryston BHA-1 (loan device) and maybe some days later a good tube amp.

@figaro: "The Xs are one pair of euphonious cans!" that's right but when I listen to my music I choose the HD800 in 70% of all cases and I'm not a fan of classical music.
EF-6 amp and any of the following DACs: Ciunas DAC, Audio-gd SA-2 and Chord QuteHD (in order of neutral > warm).
post #334 of 4053

The Ciunas DAC rules :biggrin:

post #335 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

I ALWAYS listen to the headphones first. Heard the zingy highs right off the bat. Same thing with the T1.

 

I believe those kind "no internal damping" design very sensitive to amp, just like those Hi-end Speakers from lumen white and morel.

 

And, maybe you can try find some other writers with different view point/gears , As Michael Fremer or Art Dudley to John Atkinson.

 

I already see some guys on reddit  banish K812/T1 "just" by your measure, you know how rash judge a headphone without   listening seriously.

 

p.s. Why not just sent a letter to AKG or Beyerdynamic ask about "Why you guys make your flagship like this?


Edited by donthuang - 12/19/13 at 10:17am
post #336 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by donthuang View Post
 

 

I believe those kind "no internal damping" design very sensitive to amp, just like those Hi-end Speakers from lumen white and morel.

 

And, maybe you can try find some other writers with different view point/gears , As Michael Fremer or Art Dudley to John Atkinson.

 

I already see some guys on reddit  banish K812/T1 "just" by your measure, you know how rash judge a headphone without   listening seriously.

 

p.s. Why not just sent a letter to AKG or Beyerdynamic ask about "Why you guys make your flagship like this?

 

That's not an accurate characterization of Tyll's comment. If someone mischaracterized you, would it be your fault?

 

Regarding T1, Tyll wrote a fine review of it, including it amongst the "world's best": http://www.headphone.com/rightbetweenyourears/?p=1411

 

Moreover, if you were honestly considering buying K812, you wouldn't be put off by any one reviewer.

 

Careful buyers take the time to determine which reviewers they ought to respect and what those reviewers preferences are. For example, I respect Tyll as a reviewer and I know his preferences are slightly warm. My preferences differ some from his. Therefore, when he writes that HP50 is warmer than average, it stands to reason that I should consider a different closed model. But is HP50 a good headphone? Probably. Will I like it? Probably not. With headphones as with everything in life, good judgment isn't optional.

post #337 of 4053

So they don't beat the Sennheiser HD-800? I guess I'll wait for a price drop. I still like them because they are very easy to drive like my Shure SRH 1840.


Edited by ubs28 - 12/19/13 at 2:14pm
post #338 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donthuang View Post
 

 

I believe those kind "no internal damping" design very sensitive to amp, just like those Hi-end Speakers from lumen white and morel.

 

And, maybe you can try find some other writers with different view point/gears , As Michael Fremer or Art Dudley to John Atkinson.

 

I already see some guys on reddit  banish K812/T1 "just" by your measure, you know how rash judge a headphone without   listening seriously.

 

p.s. Why not just sent a letter to AKG or Beyerdynamic ask about "Why you guys make your flagship like this?

 

That's not an accurate characterization of Tyll's comment. If someone mischaracterized you, would it be your fault?

 

Regarding T1, Tyll wrote a fine review of it, including it amongst the "world's best": http://www.headphone.com/rightbetweenyourears/?p=1411

 

Moreover, if you were honestly considering buying K812, you wouldn't be put off by any one reviewer.

 

Careful buyers take the time to determine which reviewers they ought to respect and what those reviewers preferences are. For example, I respect Tyll as a reviewer and I know his preferences are slightly warm. My preferences differ some from his. Therefore, when he writes that HP50 is warmer than average, it stands to reason that I should consider a different closed model. But is HP50 a good headphone? Probably. Will I like it? Probably not. With headphones as with everything in life, good judgment isn't optional.

I think he meant the *real* review on innerfidelity, not sales supporting overview on headroom.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/brilliant-sennheiser-hd-800?page=1

 

Quote:
 Originally posted by Tyll
 
This article compares all but the T1.

I think the T1 is a surprisingly good sounding fail. The treble sounds out of control to me. See leading edge of the 300Hz square wave and impulse response here to see. I think they sound spacy, they image poorly..

. . .

 

I reckon you're probably right on the money.

I did listen to the later T1, and I decided I wasn't going to review it.

post #339 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post
 

I think he meant the *real* review on innerfidelity, not sales supporting overview on headroom.

 

First, whether Tyll likes T1 or not, everything else I wrote is true: Some guys on reddit who've never heard K812 decided it's no good because Tyll won't review it. You think he's responsible for their ignorance. :rolleyes:

 

His headroom reviews aren't dishonest. See, for example, his pleased GS1000 review. Nevertheless, thanks for supplying his comment about T1. I notice that he specified "the later T1," so maybe he changed his mind about it when it came time to write a full review.

post #340 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

I'm no so sure.

 

AKG K812 measurements.

AKG K701 Measurements 

 

Transient response is very tizzy on the 812. 

I don't think I'll be reviewing them...just not good enough, don't want to bash AKG though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

First, whether Tyll likes T1 or not, everything else I wrote is true: Some guys on reddit who've never heard K812 decided it's no good because Tyll won't review it. You think he's responsible for their ignorance. :rolleyes:

 

His headroom reviews aren't dishonest. See, for example, his pleased GS1000 review. Nevertheless, thanks for supplying his comment about T1. I notice that he specified "the later T1," so maybe he changed his mind about it when it came time to write a full review.

 

Whatta joke. Lost a lottt of respect for Tyll as a reviewer. It's silly to discredit a pair of headphones without listening to them at all just based on some graphs. Heard he didn't bother to listen to the HE400s either based on graphs. While the HE400 may not be perfect, they still sound pretty damn good, esp for the price. He has reviewed a lot of other substantially lower quality headphones that probably don't have a great FR. Kinda makes you wonder what kind of external forces influence his selection of headphones to review.

 

Considering the amount of "clout" he carries in the audiophile world, it would be nice if he gave more headphones a chance.


Edited by money4me247 - 12/19/13 at 5:02pm
post #341 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

Whatta joke. Lost a lottt of respect for Tyll as a reviewer. It's silly to discredit a pair of headphones without listening to them at all just based on some graphs. Heard he didn't bother to listen to the HE400s either based on graphs. While the HE400 may not be perfect, they still sound pretty damn good, esp for the price. He has reviewed a lot of other substantially lower quality headphones that probably don't have a great FR. Kinda makes you wonder what kind of external forces influence his selection of headphones to review.

 

Considering the amount of "clout" he carries in the audiophile world, it would be nice if he gave more headphones a chance.

Maybe he should first review the headphones and then create the graphs to see if what he hears agrees with what comes out in the frequency graphs.  That could be a better method; thus, he wouldn't be unduly influenced/biased toward some headphones.  I'm wondering whether the pads have anything to do with the way they present in the graphs (i.e., I saw that the inside of the earpads in the 812s is kind of weird and goes quite deep, which may wreak havoc with Tyll's machinery (just wondering).

post #342 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

Whatta joke. Lost a lottt of respect for Tyll as a reviewer. It's silly to discredit a pair of headphones without listening to them at all just based on some graphs. Heard he didn't bother to listen to the HE400s either based on graphs. While the HE400 may not be perfect, they still sound pretty damn good, esp for the price. He has reviewed a lot of other substantially lower quality headphones that probably don't have a great FR. Kinda makes you wonder what kind of external forces influence his selection of headphones to review.

Considering the amount of "clout" he carries in the audiophile world, it would be nice if he gave more headphones a chance.

He listened to the headphones prior to do the graphs and he decided not to review them to avoid bashing AKG, because he thinks they are not at the level. Come back some pages, he explained it perfectly.
post #343 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post


He listened to the headphones prior to do the graphs and he decided not to review them to avoid bashing AKG, because he thinks they are not at the level. Come back some pages, he explained it perfectly.

 

That's not exactly what he said. 

 

This is what he actually said:

Mine are in and measured. I'll break them in for a while and measure again. Kinda tizzy

 

At that point, he had the intention of reviewing them.   I'm sure he gave them a listen before he measured them - I know that's what I would have done - but you are just speculating on what the sequence of events really was.

post #344 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post


He listened to the headphones prior to do the graphs and he decided not to review them to avoid bashing AKG, because he thinks they are not at the level. Come back some pages, he explained it perfectly.

Got it.  Sorry.

post #345 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by figaro69 View Post
 

Got it.  Sorry.

 

No problem. Didn´t mean to be rude, just to clarify the conversation.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvergun View Post
 

 

That's not exactly what he said. 

 

This is what he actually said:

Mine are in and measured. I'll break them in for a while and measure again. Kinda tizzy

 

At that point, he had the intention of reviewing them.   I'm sure he gave them a listen before he measured them - I know that's what I would have done - but you are just speculating on what the sequence of events really was.

 

Below, what he ACTUALLY said:

 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685339/new-akg-flagship-k812-first-impression/210#post_10068158

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

 

I'm no so sure.

 

AKG K812 measurements.

 

AKG K701 Measurements 

 

Transient response is very tizzy on the 812. 

 

I don't think I'll be reviewing them...just not good enough, don't want to bash AKG though.

 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685339/new-akg-flagship-k812-first-impression/255#post_10070939

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

I ALWAYS listen to the headphones first. Heard the zingy highs right off the bat. Same thing with the T1.

 

 

 

 

And some more interesting stuff:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685339/new-akg-flagship-k812-first-impression/180#post_10038648

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post
 

It seems I'm far more impressed by the AKG K812 so far than Tyll is.

 

...

 

I haven't heard the "tizzy" sound Tyll mentioned. That said, the K812 is not a forgiving headphone. I won't comment about how resolving I feel it is vis-à-vis the HD 800, as I don't have that with me now (but will soon). That said, the K812 is, to my ears, capable of very high resolution.

 

 

Hi Jude. Just to clarify: I find them a "bit" tizzy. Sounds to me something like there's always a triangle (the instrument) in the treble. I find it modestly fatiguing. I will also say though the I find the overall balance of the K812 better than the HD800, which to me lacks a little warmth in the bass. 

 

The three-pin cable connector indicates to me that AKG doesn't get, or isn't trying to impress this market yet. 

 

I still think it's a good effort on their part, lots of things like the aluminum build and novel earpads to admire, and I think these are markedly better sounding than the T1. But I think in the rush to the top (read: building $1000+ headphones) sonic performance in the market is not yet on par with the build quality these companies are putting into the product. I'd lump the HD800 into that category as well; seems like everyone agrees that they're a problematic headphone. Seems to me that the Audeze LCD-X is probably the closest to delivering a high price/performance ratio, but even there I feel we're well onto the steep diminishing returns curve.

 

In my estimation we're still in the infancy of ultra-high-end ($1000+) headphones, and it will be another 5 years before we really start seeing the performance of these cans strongly better than sub-$1000 headphones. 

 

In other words: Price still doesn't reflect acoustic performance on the whole, and the K812, T1, HD800, LCD-X, and others have plenty of room for improvement.

 

Edited by Ashade - 12/19/13 at 8:12pm
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