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AKG K812 Pro - Page 142

post #2116 of 4053

I'm honestly confused about the vitriol some people have for the K812.

 

The sound presentation of it is just not controversial.

 

It may not be the best at everything or one particular thing, but it's sort of a jack-of-all-trades-does-everything-pretty-well-without-glaring-flaws-or-handicaps type of sound. At it's very worst it will just be "okay" or "meh" for people. It's not a headphone you hate or love: there is nothing extreme about it. I think AKG played it pretty safe and went after the mainstream enthusiast. Its a headphone most people will think sounds "fine". The best scenerio is where people think it sounds great.

 

Now... what's extreme is the terrible measurements. That we can all agree is just pure schiit. :veryevil: (I'm hoping AKG has the latest and greatest $1 million measuring equipments that say different than Tyll's gear. I think our oracle Nomax was hinting at this before we offended him and drove him away from this thread)


Edited by M-13 - 3/24/14 at 9:52pm
post #2117 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

I'm honestly confused about the vitriol some people have for the K812.

 

The sound presentation of it is just not controversial.

 

It may not be the best at everything or one particular thing, but it's sort of a jack-of-all-trades-does-everything-pretty-well-without-glaring-flaws-or-handicaps type of sound. At it's very worst it will just be "okay" or "meh" for people. It's not a headphone you hate or love: there is nothing extreme about it. I think AKG played it pretty safe and went after the mainstream enthusiast. Its a headphone most people will think sounds "fine". The best scenerio is where people think it sounds great.

 

Now... what's extreme is the terrible measurements. That we can all agree is just pure schiit. :veryevil: (I'm hoping AKG has the latest and greatest $1 million measuring equipments that say different than Tyll's gear. I think our oracle Nomax was hinting at this before we offended him and drove him away from this thread)

 

Indeed, M-13! Which is why I keep telling everyone that they should just have a listen. Actually, that applies to any can. There is just no substitute for a personal demo. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, then that's that. I found that to be so true for the Beyer T1, which seems to be another divisive TOTL can. Maybe I'm just attracted to difficult cans... :tongue_smile: 

post #2118 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I'm honestly confused about the vitriol some people have for the K812.

The sound presentation of it is just not controversial.

It may not be the best at everything or one particular thing, but it's sort of a jack-of-all-trades-does-everything-pretty-well-without-glaring-flaws-or-handicaps type of sound. At it's very worst it will just be "okay" or "meh" for people. It's not a headphone you hate or love: there is nothing extreme about it. I think AKG played it pretty safe and went after the mainstream enthusiast. Its a headphone most people will think sounds "fine". The best scenerio is where people think it sounds great.

Now... what's extreme is the terrible measurements. That we can all agree is just pure schiit. very_evil_smiley.gif (I'm hoping AKG has the latest and greatest $1 million measuring equipments that say different than Tyll's gear. I think our oracle Nomax was hinting at this before we offended him and drove him away from this thread)

I think the vitriol (honestly, there hasn't been very much) is a result of the high price--which I think is kind of unfair. But if it were a lot cheaper, maybe "meh" would be a reaction people could live with. For that money, I want not only "Wow!" but "this does everything well." I haven't had that so far, but that's OK. Well, I kind of have it with K340, but it's not a flagship kind of wow.

About the last paragraph, I can't tell if you're serious because there's an ambivalence there between discounting measurements and wanting them to favor what you enjoy.
post #2119 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post


I think the vitriol (honestly, there hasn't been very much) is a result of the high price--which I think is kind of unfair. But if it were a lot cheaper, maybe "meh" would be a reaction people could live with. For that money, I want not only "Wow!" but "this does everything well." I haven't had that so far, but that's OK. Well, I kind of have it with K340, but it's not a flagship kind of wow.

About the last paragraph, I can't tell if you're serious because there's an ambivalence there between discounting measurements and wanting them to favor what you enjoy.


The K812 is a headphone that personally truly wowed me, but this really only happens when it's on a system it truly goes along well with. I personally think it's the best sounding dynamic flagship currently made and I thought it did everything well. The pairs of headphones I thought were better, are all a lot more expensive than the K812.

post #2120 of 4053
...
Edited by MoatsArt - 3/25/14 at 2:08pm
post #2121 of 4053

After owning the K812 for a couple weeks now, I'm definitely enjoying it for what it is, and for my use of it. It's my pair I use at work, and I use it at a very low volume, like 7 o'clock on my Bottlehead Crack. It still manages to show the details and imaging at these low volume so it's working out great for me. I have no complaints on the sound, and treble is not a problem at these volumes. The only thing I wish they did better on was the cable as there is the occasional EMI buzzing caused by the various electronics on my desk at work.

 

Is it better than to the HD800 to me? That's hard to say to be honest, as at this level the difference it quite minimal. Perhaps at higher volumes, the K812's treble would still bother me, though I haven't heard it loud for a few weeks now. Though I also found the Crack to take the edge off the treble and smooth things out. I do know the K812 has the advantage of drivability and comfort to me. It's probably also a better genre master.

post #2122 of 4053
@m-13 - not seeing much hate here towards the k812. planning on giving it another listen myself. don't agree with you about earphones based on my experience. both the ex1000 and k3003 are universals that sound bigger than my w3000anv.
post #2123 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

@m-13 - not seeing much hate here towards the k812. planning on giving it another listen myself. don't agree with you about earphones based on my experience. both the ex1000 and k3003 are universals that sound bigger than my w3000anv.


Having never experienced the ex1000 or the K3003 I can't say I wouldn't agree with you there.

 

That would be neat if I could get that big scale of sound from an IEM. I do admit dynamic driver somewhat alievate that tiny scale of sound issue, as the drivers are several times larger than BAs (no matter how many you stick in there). I should be able to audition all the latest and greatest $1000+ universal IEMs pretty soon. Maybe next month. Hopefully I'll have my X5 by then, so I can audition with that.

 

Edit: Oh wait I did try the ex1000 before. Really? Hmm... I guess I'll trying auditioning that sucker again if I ever get the chance...


Edited by M-13 - 3/24/14 at 11:47pm
post #2124 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post

About the last paragraph, I can't tell if you're serious because there's an ambivalence there between discounting measurements and wanting them to favor what you enjoy.

I'm not discounting Tyll's measurements. They are what they are. Terrible.

 

What I'm counting on is that AKG isn't a bunch of mom-and-pop-shop-amatuer-DIYers. This isn't exactly their first time building headphones. My guess is they have their own equipement (different from Tyll's) and have met their own targets for measurements and engineering through their own research. As for who is right? I don't know. What I can say is they're probably using newer and more sophisticated gear and I wouldn't be surprised if they invested millions in their own gear. (this of course is just a guess based on pure donkey-BS conjecture).

 

I like this old saying: If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it Measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing.

 

(obviously, I'm not sure this applies in this situation, but that is my suspicion given how blatantly bad measurements are vs how good the thing actually sounds)

 

Reminds me of the time someone approached Sennheiser to "prove" the HD800 was too bright and not neutral. I think the rep just kind of laughed and said they're measuring the wrong thing and that indeed the HD800 is the very definition of neutrality according to measurements and engineering done by Sennheiser.

 

So everyone has different takes on it. I'm somewhat convinced AKG was headed on the right track with the K812. Focal caught the mythical unicorn IMO, and AKG needs to talk to Focal because they're almost there. Close enough to "Wow me," everytime I listen to it.


Edited by M-13 - 3/24/14 at 11:44pm
post #2125 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post

I think the vitriol (honestly, there hasn't been very much) is a result of the high price--which I think is kind of unfair. But if it were a lot cheaper, maybe "meh" would be a reaction people could live with. For that money, I want not only "Wow!" but "this does everything well." I haven't had that so far, but that's OK. Well, I kind of have it with K340, but it's not a flagship kind of wow.

I think with flagship the price to performance ratio is pretty darn low. For crazy enthusiasts it's not about value, every 1% improvement counts and we're willing to pay top dollar for it. Otherwise we'd all be just listening to M50s off an iPhone like sane normal people. There is no logic or reason, just pure insane passion to waste money in the pursuit of a dream. Haha. For me personally I can say every penny has been well spent and lost in this hobby. I've derived countless hours of pleasure with my music and have no regrets about buying gear, even those I eventually hated and ended up selling. Or the countless hours spent roaming audio shops, driving far distances to sample gear, you name it. It gave me more perspective and taught me lessons about my own preference and I've learned a lot since I started lurking on Head-Fi.


Edited by M-13 - 3/24/14 at 11:57pm
post #2126 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I'm not discounting Tyll's measurements. They are what they are. Terrible.

What I'm counting on is that AKG isn't a bunch of mom-and-pop-shop-amatuer-DIYers. This isn't exactly their first time building headphones. My guess is they have their own equipement (different from Tyll's) and have met their own targets for measurements and engineering through their own research. As for who is right? I don't know. What I can say is they're probably using newer and more sophisticated gear and I wouldn't be surprised if they invested millions in their own gear. (this of course is just a guess based on pure donkey-BS conjecture).

I like this old saying: If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it Measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing.

(obviously, I'm not sure this applies in this situation, but that is my suspicion given how blatantly bad measurements are vs how good the thing actually sounds)

Reminds me of the time someone approached Sennheiser to "prove" the HD800 was too bright and not neutral. I think the rep just kind of laughed and said they're measuring the wrong thing and that indeed the HD800 is the very definition of neutrality according to measurements and engineering done by Sennheiser.

So everyone has different takes on it. I'm somewhat convinced AKG was headed on the right track with the K812. Focal caught the mythical unicorn IMO, and AKG needs to talk to Focal because they're almost there. Close enough to "Wow me," everytime I listen to it.

Good observations. I enjoyed that, so thank you.

But HD800 is too bright. These companies need to be more open to positive criticism, and AKG seems to have had the right attitude regarding Tyll's review.

I'd try the Focal Pro, but the earpads are too small and it seems the clamping is somewhat much. I'm still looking for the right portable, and the portable market is ever more encouraging.
post #2127 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

 

I like this old saying: If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it Measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing.

 

But how do you know that if it measures good and sounds bad, you also haven't measured the wrong thing?

post #2128 of 4053

I've always thought sound is subjective and measurements are objective...

post #2129 of 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
 

But how do you know that if it measures good and sounds bad, you also haven't measured the wrong thing?


You don't know. Haha

post #2130 of 4053
I had a chance to see and hear the SPL Phonitor2 this past weekend at the SoCal HeasFi Meet. I didn't bring any cans so I listened to their demo pair, the Audeze LCX closed back version. That was very impressive. I previously owned the LCD 3 but sold them when I grew dissatisfied with them. But these new one's sounded really good with the Phonitor2. They are still on back order in the US, but after seeing it and hearing it I decided to return the Lehmann Audio Linear SE, thanks to Amazons 30 day return policy.
Now I'm back to square one, playing the waiting game.
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