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AKG K812 Pro - Page 126

post #1876 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
 

 

Interesting how there appears to be no peak in the 3kHz area, and the 8-10kHz on both 812 and 800 resemble a tooth.

 

Yes. :confused:

post #1877 of 4064

What immediately comes to mind is K712 with considerable improvement in the treble.

 

post #1878 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbob713 View Post

It's great to see more people posting their impressions on the 812. My pair seem to mirror what Muppetface ,Kiats and M-13 have had and posted here. I think having a measurement on Muppetface's cans could help us sort out the controversy regarding possible production variations. If the measurements reaffirm Tyll's findings, then the only possible explanation is the most obvious. That is, our own preferences, physical shape of the ear,etc,etc.
Also, M-13 is getting his second pair. Let's see if he hears any variations in his.
I don't think people are only hearing what they want to hear because they bought these. If everyone was hearing shrill treble, these cans would be universally panned. Speaking for myself, I would have returned mine in a heartbeat if they sounded shrill and distorted. My ears just haven't heard it.

not enough folks have heard the can for it to be universally panned. wink.gif purrin's heard it, posted measurements over at his site and panned it. it's cool that you don't hear any problems with yours and wanna champion it but the objective measurements and negative comments from other folks who have heard it shouldn't be ignored, especially if you're thinking about shelling out $1500 and trawling this thread hoping to find some unbiased opinion. don't have a dog in this fight but gotta say that the hd800 sounded like the more refined flagship can to me.
Edited by up late - 3/9/14 at 7:16pm
post #1879 of 4064

The frequency response measurements on HeadRoom are mostly in line with Tyll's measurements. The question again becomes about the distortions on Tyll's measurements and maybe it's not how accentuated 2-3 kHz is in respect to other frequencies (there's actually a dip there), but that there is simply a larger amount of distortion from 2-3 kHz (really 1-3 kHz has higher distortion in his measurements). Perhaps, it is really the higher distortion levels that causes the unpleasant sound. Note that I mentioned it was not a problem on lower volumes for me, and that distortion tends to exponentially increase with volume.

 

For reference:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/akg-k812-professional-reference-headphone-measurements

post #1880 of 4064
could be wrong but doesn't Tyll do the measurements for headroom?
post #1881 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

not enough folks have heard the can for it to be universally panned. wink.gif purrin's heard it, posted measurements over at his site and he panned it. it's cool that you don't hear any problems with yours and wanna champion it but the objective measurements and negative comments from other folks who have heard it shouldn't be ignored, especially if you're thinking about shelling out $1500 and trawling this thread in the hope of finding some unbiased opinion. don't have a dog in this fight but gotta say that the hd800 sounded like the more refined flagship can to me.
Fair enough. The more views and impressions posted here the better. I have only reported how I hear it.
post #1882 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

could be wrong but doesn't Tyll do the measurements for headroom?

 

I think they share equipment but use slightly different methods.

post #1883 of 4064
ok - thought that tyll had his own measurement rig
Edited by up late - 3/9/14 at 7:14pm
post #1884 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

ok - thought that tyll had his own measurement rig

 

Here's what I was remembering wrong:

 

"When I left HeadRoom I bought the headphone test gear, but I also agreed in the lease to provide headphone measurements and to let HeadRoom use the gear for production measurements (Mike Olsen comes over to my house to do this)."

post #1885 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post
 

The frequency response measurements on HeadRoom are mostly in line with Tyll's measurements. The question again becomes about the distortions on Tyll's measurements and maybe it's not how accentuated 2-3 kHz is in respect to other frequencies (there's actually a dip there), but that there is simply a larger amount of distortion from 2-3 kHz (really 1-3 kHz has higher distortion in his measurements). Perhaps, it is really the higher distortion levels that causes the unpleasant sound. Note that I mentioned it was not a problem on lower volumes for me, and that distortion tends to exponentially increase with volume.

 

For reference:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/akg-k812-professional-reference-headphone-measurements

They're in line because Tyll is the one who does the measurements. The differences are that on innerfidelity.com, they are an average of 5 different locations on the dummy's head (so more accurate there). The 300Hz square wave plots on the K812s doesn't bode well.

post #1886 of 4064

Just comparing the distortions levels on the last two headphones I've really used, the HE-500 and HD800, with the K812:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE500.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK812SN001130.pdf

 

Remember everything is logarithmic. Looking at the lower values of 90 dB, the HE-500 and HD800 are both around 0.3% THD+Noise at 2-3 kHz, where the K812 is 0.6 or 0.7%. I also just looked up the distortion numbers on the Schiit Vali and it's <0.4% THD and <0.45% IMD. I'd assume the actual numbers are close to what's listed as less than or they'd list less that 0.1% if it was really less than 0.1% for example.

 

Now I don't know how distortion values in the amp and headphones are combined, but it could make for a nasty mix, compounding one another. I already determined the DC-1 headphone out sounds horrible for both the HD800 and K812, so it could just have really high distortion levels. Schiit has mentioned one of the compromises with the Vali is higher distortion levels. In comparison, the cheaper Magni has THD and IMD of 0.005% and 0.007% respectively, a whole two degrees of magnitude lower! That's also why I'm waiting to see how it performs with my Questyle coming in tomorrow. It has merely a 0.00038% of THD+Noise, three degrees of magnitude lower than the Vali!

 

Perhaps the higher distortion number of the K812 isn't too much of an issue if you're using an amp that has very low distortion, but if your chain is already very distorted, I can see the amp distortions compounding with the K812's distortions and the total distortion values becoming multiplicative than simply additive, and becoming really bad. Again, I don't know how this works exactly. If someone who knows how the distortion values from the amp and headphone interact could enlighten us, it would be much appreciated.

 

Haha, maybe the higher distortion values of the K812 gives it justification to be a "source picky" headphone. :p 


Edited by Sonido - 3/9/14 at 7:31pm
post #1887 of 4064
So...does anyone who had the HD800 sold it and kept the K812, and vice versa of course...
post #1888 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by pearljam50000 View Post

So...does anyone who had the HD800 sold it and kept the K812, and vice versa of course...
I would be willing to put my money where my mouth is. Anyone interested in buying my HD800's please PM me.
post #1889 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbob713 View Post

I would be willing to put my money where my mouth is. Anyone interested in buying my HD800's please PM me.

Not sure if that's the best choice of words, as you'll be recouping considerably biggrin.gif, but we knew what you meant.
post #1890 of 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

They're in line because Tyll is the one who does the measurements. The differences are that on innerfidelity.com, they are an average of 5 different locations on the dummy's head (so more accurate there). The 300Hz square wave plots on the K812s doesn't bode well.

 

Ouch! IMO you hit the nail on the head with that observation.  I personally place more importance of the slew rate at 300hz than at 30hz.  I wonder why Tyll doesn't do slew measurements further up as well, like at 1khz or more?  Might be a technical reason this is not possible?

 

It looks the same as a T1 at 300hz, where I felt that the tonal balance of the T1 and HD650 were very similar, I felt the T1 was absolutely more resolving than the 650...I always felt the 650 sounded more 'open' to me which I contributed to a full open can vs semi open.  But my experience tells me, subjectively, anything with a smoother 300hz always sound very 'open' in the mids to me.


Edited by SP Wild - 3/9/14 at 10:14pm
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