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AKG K812 Pro - Page 124

post #1846 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiats View Post

Sonido, I'm glad that I'm not alone in not understanding the fuss about the treble peak on the HD700... smily_headphones1.gif
Lots of people who have spent real time with than can aren't bothered by the treble. I'm highly sensitive to treble and there's nothing harsh or fatiguing with my copy. Love it.
post #1847 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post

Lots of people who have spent real time with than can aren't bothered by the treble. I'm highly sensitive to treble and there's nothing harsh or fatiguing with my copy. Love it.

Good to know! smily_headphones1.gif
post #1848 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post


Or... maybe the issue exists on all copies and people who are more sensitive to those frequencies can hear it.

 

As I said in my impressions, I don't think this is the case. I'm *highly* sensitive to treble these days. For perspective, my Abyss bothers me where it didn't just a year ago. Most "audiophile" headphones have some treble irregularities going on, and when I first heard the K812 it really impressed me precisely because it seemed to offer a wide open presentation without the treble issues that usually go hand-in-hand with that type of presentation (gives it more sense of 'air' for a lot of folks). When I see the measurements of the K812 by Tyll, frankly I'm confused, because I generally have a good feel for how things measure relative to how I hear them. I'm glad I listened to the K812 first because had I just seen Tyll's measurements, I likely wouldn't have bothered to purchase the K812 since I'm pretty jaded these days and generally favor speakers over headphones.

 

It wasn't a true double blind test, but comparing my K812 beside my friend's I could tell them apart sonically on certain tracks without knowing which was which (we had to double check serial numbers in the end to know who owned which one). His has a more aggressive sound, with a sharper treble that gives cymbals more of an edge and results in my lowering the volume on that set almost every time. With mine, I usually ended up having to crank it up a bit more because it seemed more sedate.

 

Product variation can be seen in measurements for things like the T1 and LCDs taken on the same measurement rig. The HD800 by comparison is fairly consistent. I'm going to see about sending my K812 to one of my friends in SoCal with a measurement rig who has already taken measurements of a pair he considers to sound a bit harsh. Will be interesting to see if any differences manifest in the readings.

post #1849 of 2777
It's great to see more people posting their impressions on the 812. My pair seem to mirror what Muppetface ,Kiats and M-13 have had and posted here. I think having a measurement on Muppetface's cans could help us sort out the controversy regarding possible production variations. If the measurements reaffirm Tyll's findings, then the only possible explanation is the most obvious. That is, our own preferences, physical shape of the ear,etc,etc.
Also, M-13 is getting his second pair. Let's see if he hears any variations in his.
I don't think people are only hearing what they want to hear because they bought these. If everyone was hearing shrill treble, these cans would be universally panned. Speaking for myself, I would have returned mine in a heartbeat if they sounded shrill and distorted. My ears just haven't heard it.
post #1850 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

As I said in my impressions, I don't think this is the case. I'm *highly* sensitive to treble these days. For perspective, my Abyss bothers me where it didn't just a year ago. Most "audiophile" headphones have some treble irregularities going on, and when I first heard the K812 it really impressed me precisely because it seemed to offer a wide open presentation without the treble issues that usually go hand-in-hand with that type of presentation (gives it more sense of 'air' for a lot of folks). When I see the measurements of the K812 by Tyll, frankly I'm confused, because I generally have a good feel for how things measure relative to how I hear them. I'm glad I listened to the K812 first because had I just seen Tyll's measurements, I likely wouldn't have bothered to purchase the K812 since I'm pretty jaded these days and generally favor speakers over headphones.

It wasn't a true double blind test, but comparing my K812 beside my friend's I could tell them apart sonically on certain tracks without knowing which was which (we had to double check serial numbers in the end to know who owned which one). His has a more aggressive sound, with a sharper treble that gives cymbals more of an edge and results in my lowering the volume on that set almost every time. With mine, I usually ended up having to crank it up a bit more because it seemed more sedate.

Product variation can be seen in measurements for things like the T1 and LCDs taken on the same measurement rig. The HD800 by comparison is fairly consistent. I'm going to see about sending my K812 to one of my friends in SoCal with a measurement rig who has already taken measurements of a pair he considers to sound a bit harsh. Will be interesting to see if any differences manifest in the readings.
Perhaps. I just did some crude measurements of the frequency whilst playing white noise, and to my surprise there is barely a bump at 2 kHz. Looking at the graph of the M500 at headphone.com it too only has a slight bump there and yet I find it bothersome. I've done measurements of my other headphones as well in the past, and they have a small dip at the 2-3 kHz instead. Perhaps I'm just used to a dip there.
post #1851 of 2777
I thought it was practically impossible to compare measurements taken on different measuring set ups because of lack of standardization. It would probably be best to send Tyll several that are thought to sound different.
post #1852 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbob713 View Post

It's great to see more people posting their impressions on the 812. My pair seem to mirror what Muppetface ,Kiats and M-13 have had and posted here. I think having a measurement on Muppetface's cans could help us sort out the controversy regarding possible production variations. If the measurements reaffirm Tyll's findings, then the only possible explanation is the most obvious. That is, our own preferences, physical shape of the ear,etc,etc.
Also, M-13 is getting his second pair. Let's see if he hears any variations in his.
I don't think people are only hearing what they want to hear because they bought these. If everyone was hearing shrill treble, these cans would be universally panned. Speaking for myself, I would have returned mine in a heartbeat if they sounded shrill and distorted. My ears just haven't heard it.

 

It's getting more appealing and more desir:smile:able...I should start saving me pennies.

 

post #1853 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreyka View Post
 

HD800 isn't picky. The listener is picky. Headphones obey physical laws last time I checked. Many hear the HD800 as thin, bass shy and bright. However, that is the what the HD800 sound like when using flat FR, low distortion equipment. Separate the sound of the headphone from the sound of the headphone + amplifier combo.

 

It's an important point to make because there is no "scaling" there is only a difference in sound. It's irritating because people act like you must have X,Y,Z amplifier for the HD800 that conveniently doubles the cost. It's even more irritating when people do this to make another headphone seem cheaper in comparison and usually happens when people are scraping the barrel of reasons to get another headphone instead. "T1 is cheap because you need to spend like $3000 for a HD800 combo otherwise." That is just awful reasoning.

I think this is a good post and reasonable argument. 

 

 

 

@Sonido - Great personable impressions thanks! 

 

I'm becoming more and more interested in these. I've always liked the AKG flags. Plus, a little aggression in the lower treb at high volume wouldn't bother me one bit. For me thats what the AKG 'house sound' has always had. A tiny little EQ tweak should put a plaster over the sore area :D  

post #1854 of 2777

Tyll has had two pairs that had the same problems in the treble region. It's more likely that most of you just aren't as good at hearing as you think you are. Until, Tyll measures a pair that doesn't have high distortion in the treble it is safe to say the evidence favours that they all have the same distortion in the treble.

 

I will reiterate what I quoted earlier.

 

Source

Quote: Tyll Hertsens

 

I did echange emails with a member of the design team after receiving the first sample of these cans. I heard what I consider the treble problem immediately and after confirming what I heard with measurements I reported my findings to AKG reps. I also posted my measurements on Head-Fi.

During subsequent listening I gained further appreciation of the other stallar aspects of these cans. Response to my measurements ranged from dismay on the part of those who hadn't heard the cans, to disbelief by those who had. A number of reviewers who I respect heard these cans differently than I, so I thought it important to keep my opinion maliable for a while longer. 

There was some additional clammor from enthusiasts thinking I had possibly got a poor sample pair, a possibility which both I and AKG reps also entertained. I requested a second sample. I listened and measured them upon receipt, and found them to be quite similar to the first pair received.

At one point, either in open forums or emails, I forget which, an AKG rep said maybe I should review them anyway as I found them to have strong points along with the problem I perceived. That, along with numerous request by email, PM, and post from enthusiasts finally convinced me to publish my opinion.

So, to your post Tony, I have no amp problems, two samples measured nearly identical so that's the production product in my mind. 

It may be worth mentioning that the Beyer T1 measures very similarly to the K812, and I disqualify it as a flagship can for just about the same reasons. I like the overall sound of the K812 quite a bit better though.

 


Edited by Dreyka - 3/9/14 at 1:33pm
post #1855 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreyka View Post

Tyll has had two pairs that had the same problems in the treble region. It's more likely that most of you just aren't as good at hearing as you think you are. Until, Tyll measures a pair that doesn't have high distortion in the treble it is safe to say the evidence favours that they all have the same distortion in the treble.

Sure. I think that's reasonable. Though they were coming from AKG, not the public so some degree of selective matching could have occurred. Still, potential buyers like me and other collectors would want to know if there are unannounced variations in production.
post #1856 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post


Sure. I think that's reasonable. Though they were coming from AKG, not the public so some degree of selective matching could have occurred. Still, potential buyers like me and other collectors would want to know if there are unannounced variations in production.

 

I'm sure the phones are all the same but the ears/tastes are different. As Lou Reed once said, "It's not for everybody and nothing is for everybody".

 

post #1857 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post

Sure. I think that's reasonable. Though they were coming from AKG, not the public so some degree of selective matching could have occurred. Still, potential buyers like me and other collectors would want to know if there are unannounced variations in production.
It's starting to get a little conspiracy theory-ish up in this mug.
post #1858 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

It's getting more appealing and more desir:smile: able...I should start saving me pennies.


I was able to hunt down a copy of the March 2014 issue of Recording magazine you told me about. They review a number of hp's in this issue, including an excellent review on the K612 Pro, K712 Pro and the K812. This piece should be read by anyone curious about these headphones. To paraphrase the author, " everyone should hear music they really know well through a the K812 and a proper amp once in their life. You owe it to yourself to know what ruthless, uncompromising perfection sounds like".
"The remarkably flat and neutral frequency response and amazing detail turn out to be a two edged sword. These headphones will immerses you in the details , good and bad, as well as the emotions. And he writes, "Oh, and outright badly recorded or encoded stuff, forget it. If your recording has MP3 artifacts or overused noise reduction, these headphones will turn them into a weapon that will put a serious hurt on your ears."
The review summarizes with, "After the mind expanding experience of 24/96 audio through the K812, it's difficult to go back to any other headphone, an astounding pinnacle of audio performance."
I encourage people on this thread to check the review out. I found the magazine at my local Barnes and Nobel today.
post #1859 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbob713 View Post

It's great to see more people posting their impressions on the 812. My pair seem to mirror what Muppetface ,Kiats and M-13 have had and posted here. I think having a measurement on Muppetface's cans could help us sort out the controversy regarding possible production variations. If the measurements reaffirm Tyll's findings, then the only possible explanation is the most obvious. That is, our own preferences, physical shape of the ear,etc,etc.
Also, M-13 is getting his second pair. Let's see if he hears any variations in his.
I don't think people are only hearing what they want to hear because they bought these. If everyone was hearing shrill treble, these cans would be universally panned. Speaking for myself, I would have returned mine in a heartbeat if they sounded shrill and distorted. My ears just haven't heard it.

 

 

I agree, macbob713. Which is why anyone who is really interested in this can owe it to themselves to have a listen for themselves and decide for themselves. :L3000:

post #1860 of 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbob713 View Post

It's great to see more people posting their impressions on the 812. My pair seem to mirror what Muppetface ,Kiats and M-13 have had and posted here. I think having a measurement on Muppetface's cans could help us sort out the controversy regarding possible production variations. If the measurements reaffirm Tyll's findings, then the only possible explanation is the most obvious. That is, our own preferences, physical shape of the ear,etc,etc.
Also, M-13 is getting his second pair. Let's see if he hears any variations in his.
I don't think people are only hearing what they want to hear because they bought these. If everyone was hearing shrill treble, these cans would be universally panned. Speaking for myself, I would have returned mine in a heartbeat if they sounded shrill and distorted. My ears just haven't heard it.

Great post macbob! I would have definitely returned mine as well if I heard tizzy or confused treble or god forbid ringing. I have no problems returning products I find to be problematic. In fact if I wasn't so in love with the K812 I would have just asked for a refund instead of a replacement from RazorDog. He actually had the HD800 for cheaper (in stock) than what I got the K812 for, and I thought long and hard about it before going K812, and thought about it some more when sending it in and asking for a replacement.

 

As for my replacement pair. It's stuck in my local post office. Expected delivery has been updated to Monday. If I get a pair that is strident/tizzy/confused I'll let everyone know and return my pair.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post

Perhaps. I just did some crude measurements of the frequency whilst playing white noise, and to my surprise there is barely a bump at 2 kHz. Looking at the graph of the M500 at headphone.com it too only has a slight bump there and yet I find it bothersome. I've done measurements of my other headphones as well in the past, and they have a small dip at the 2-3 kHz instead. Perhaps I'm just used to a dip there.

 

Yeah, most headphones are mising information at 2K~3K, it's quite unusual for headphones to be linear there instead of dipping hard off a cliff. I actually like it a lot. The K812 and Spirit Pro both exhibit this trait which I personally like and think of closer to "neutral". The Signature Pro dips pretty hard there, like all other headphones I've tried in my profile. It's the more common tuning and is not unpleasant or anything, it's the lesser fault of ommission rather than inclusion, so little harm done, but I'm just missing information there that I like hearing.

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