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[REVIEW]: Noble Audio Kaiser 10: 10-driver Custom-Fit In-Ear Monitor - Page 4

post #46 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by serious7 View Post

For some reason I feel this (and SorenSlim's) review of the kaiser to be heavily biased. I'd like to purchase the kaiser but I'd like to see someone who is not previously involved with Heir/Noble to review the product line. The only reviews of this available today are those who have dealt with the Wizard back when he was with Heir Audio. I feel there is a significantly high chance that there is a bias associated with the brand here(the Wizard brand). I'd be pleased to see if someone else (who has not touched the Heir audio/Noble line of products) can get a review sample because that would remove all traces of  brand loyalty in the review.  Otherwise, I recommend everyone be cautious and take this (and SorenSlim's) review with a grain of salt as there is a lot of money involved with purchasing a product at this price tag. 

I agreed with your point of view. I only see the pros but not the cons at all. I will wait for more review and Wizard give the promo launch price as he did whrn he was still in Heir Audio.
post #47 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by serious7 View Post
 

It wasn't a night or day difference in my books. 

 

i believed for some it wont be a day and night difference. but for some there might be difference due to the fit. for me it was about 10-20% difference. and usually in audio, it is the last 5-10% improvement that we are looking for in our upgrade path. lets just wait for more review to be available before we jump to any conclusion :L3000:

post #48 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by king8888 View Post


I agreed with your point of view. I only see the pros but not the cons at all. I will wait for more review and Wizard give the promo launch price as he did whrn he was still in Heir Audio.

 

Hmmm... I think the cons of kaiser is that its sound is tuned in a too neutral way, it does not have a unique characteristic like Kunlun had stated already "Usually earphones have some extreme somewhere in their sound, a boosted bass or a piercingly bright treble, the Kaiser just doesn’t"

and maybe the bass does not fit for those bassheads who had fallen in love with 8A as well

 

after all, those are just my opinions, because I have neither 8A nor Kaiser :tongue_smile:

post #49 of 291
Demo version of customs are close enough to give you a flavor of the real thing and help you decide if they're your thing or not. I hope Noble will produce some as I think it would be really difficult for most of us to take a leap of faith at this price point.
post #50 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepGroove View Post

Demo version of customs are close enough to give you a flavor of the real thing and help you decide if they're your thing or not. I hope Noble will produce some as I think it would be really difficult for most of us to take a leap of faith at this price point.

This is exactly what I mean. The 4.ai was definitely close enough to give the flavor of the 4.a. 

 

Review samples should not be made custom to the reviewer's ears. That is the opposite of what a review sample is. It becomes a customized product at the end of the day for the reviewer to keep. There does not seem any logic in sending the product back as the shell and all labor associated with building that custom "sample" will have gone to waste. 

 

If the reviewers are keeping these samples(since they are customized for their ears anyway), then that just increases the bias in the review. 


Edited by serious7 - 10/10/13 at 11:06am
post #51 of 291

Hey Kunlun, appreciate the review. For what it was worth I think it's a great review.

 

Here's a couple quick questions though: did you get a chance to listen to the Kaiser out of any "non-audiophile" sources? As in just your iPod or a computer headphone out? If so, was it a huge step back in quality versus your Glacier, or does the Kaiser sound great even straight out of an iPod?

 

Any sensitivity issues or hiss? Easy/hard to drive?

 

Thanks!

post #52 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by serious7 View Post
 

Review samples should not be made custom to the reviewer's ears. That is the opposite of what a review sample is. It becomes a customized product at the end of the day for the reviewer to keep. There does not seem any logic in sending the product back as the shell and all labor associated with building that custom "sample" will have gone to waste. 

They could get them back and do a reshell. Yes, the cost and labor of producing the original CIEM would be lost, but they can salvage the parts. I have no idea how much money that saves the manufacturer though.

 

I think with 8 or 10 drivers per ear, the driver placement has to be customized for each person's ear just to get the drivers to fit. A universal K10 might have to protrude out of the ear really far to ensure that the part of the shell in the ear will fit everyone. Maybe the distance of the drivers from the ear might change the sound too.

 

I have no idea, just a thought.

 

Do the other CIEM manufacturers have universal demo versions of the flagship CIEMs? I think UE does.

post #53 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednuht View Post

Hmmm... I think the cons of kaiser is that its sound is tuned in a too neutral way, it does not have a unique characteristic like Kunlun had stated already "Usually earphones have some extreme somewhere in their sound, a boosted bass or a piercingly bright treble, the Kaiser just doesn’t"
and maybe the bass does not fit for those bassheads who had fallen in love with 8A as well

after all, those are just my opinions, because I have neither 8A nor Kaiser tongue_smile.gif

I think you've got the right idea, people should consider what they want in terms of sound signature. The Kaiser won't be right for bassheads, maybe the 8C (as project86 describes it) or another ciem instead.
Edited by Kunlun - 10/10/13 at 11:18am
post #54 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild View Post

Hey Kunlun, appreciate the review. For what it was worth I think it's a great review.

Here's a couple quick questions though: did you get a chance to listen to the Kaiser out of any "non-audiophile" sources? As in just your iPod or a computer headphone out? If so, was it a huge step back in quality versus your Glacier, or does the Kaiser sound great even straight out of an iPod?

Any sensitivity issues or hiss? Easy/hard to drive?

Thanks!

Thanks, Wild! The review describes the Kaiser as I hear it.

You have a great question. I will listen and ask Sorensiim to do the same and we'll report back to you here.
Edited by Kunlun - 10/10/13 at 11:14am
post #55 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by serious7 View Post
 

Project86 was the 4th person who posted on the official Wizard appreciation thread.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/584763/the-wizard-appreciation-thread-long-live-the-wizard-the-former-ha-appreciation-thread

 

He's been involved with the original Heir Audio line as well? Most of the reviews here are from the same people who reviewed the now defunct Heir Audio line of products back when the Wizard was working there. There is a high chance for brand loyalty in these reviews and that's why I wish to see someone who's not involved with the Wizard brand to receive a "sample" to  review the product.

 

Even if someone buys the kaizer out of his/her pocket, he/she may lie to him/herself that it sounds better than it really is because $1500+ is a lot of money and the person may not want to feel bad that it was a bad investment.  

 

The whole purpose of sending review samples is to avoid that type of bias. Let's have review samples sent to people who aren't involved with the Wizard brand. It will be much more beneficial for those who want to spend $1500+ on a CIEM as they will at least be assured that no brand loyalty is involved in the review. 

If you go to Innerfidelity.com you'll see comparative review of top CIEMs by a number of reviewers. One of them is Project86. In it he prefers the JH13 to an 8a so I think he qualifies as unbiased and he's not financially associated with one any more than another that sends review samples (about all). We never have to agree with reviews but here, I think that he's proven himself of not showing any intended favoritism. You should always try to get a listen to anything this expensive when possible but it's not always available in which case caution is warranted but when you have a known quantity like Project86 doing a review, you should at least accept it as an honest opinion.

post #56 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by serious7 View Post

This is exactly what I mean. The 4.ai was definitely close enough to give the flavor of the 4.a. 

Review samples should not be made custom to the reviewer's ears. That is the opposite of what a review sample is. It becomes a customized product at the end of the day for the reviewer to keep. There does not seem any logic in sending the product back as the shell and all labor associated with building that custom "sample" will have gone to waste. 

How would anyone give an exact review of something that's almost the exact product? Especially on a site where people will get into heated debates over the sonic differences between two firmware revisions for the same DAP. You have made your point, I disagree.

By the way, Project86 reviews audio products for a living. His livelihood depends on his ability to write trustworthy, honest reviews. Do you think he would risk that to please a company? Does the fact that he has owned and liked (and bought, just like me) products built by the Wizard in the past somehow mean that he can no longer review products made by The Wizard or his associates? Then you'll be having a hard time finding experienced reviewers soon. Especially if you maintain that neither those who receive samples nor those who pay out of their own pocket are to be trusted.

Now can we PLEASE get this thread back on track? Feel free to PM me if you want to keep debating who are allowed to express their opinions on a given product.
Edited by Sorensiim - 10/10/13 at 11:13am
post #57 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post
 

They could get them back and do a reshell. Yes, the cost and labor of producing the original CIEM would be lost, but they can salvage the parts. I have no idea how much money that saves the manufacturer though.

 

I think with 8 or 10 drivers per ear, the driver placement has to be customized for each person's ear just to get the drivers to fit. A universal K10 might have to protrude out of the ear really far to ensure that the part of the shell in the ear will fit everyone. Maybe the distance of the drivers from the ear might change the sound too.

 

I have no idea, just a thought.

 

Do the other CIEM manufacturers have universal demo versions of the flagship CIEMs? I think UE does.

If it is a universal demo/sample, then who cares if it potrudes out of the ear? It's a demo at the end of the day? From what I remember, the universal version of the 8A also potruded out of the ears. If the sample/demo unit is not meant to be kept as a "gift" then who care's how bad it looks? 

 

Even car manufacturers like BMW have ugly looking demo units. That's what makes it a demo in the first place.

 


Edited by serious7 - 10/10/13 at 11:18am
post #58 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorensiim View Post


How would anyone give an exact review of something that's almost the exact product? Especially on a site where people will get into heated debates over the sonic differences between two firmware revisions for the same DAP. You have made your point, I disagree.

By the way, Project86 reviews audio products for a living. His livelihood depends on his ability to write trustworthy, honest reviews. Do you think he would risk that to please a company? Does the fact that he has owned and liked (and bought, just like me) products built by the Wizard in the past somehow mean that he can no longer review products made by The Wizard or his associates? Then you'll be having a hard time finding experienced reviewers soon. Especially if you maintain that neither those who receive samples nor those who pay out of their own pocket are to be trusted.

Now can we PLEASE get this thread back on track? Feel free to PM me if you want to keep debating who are allowed to express their opinions on a given product.

All I said was, let's get some sample units to people who don't have brand loyalty to the wizard brand. It will provide a much better material for those of us (including me) who are interested in purchasing the noble flagship ciem. It looks amazing! I just don't have the leap of faith here to shell out $1500+ with reviews that are conducted by people who have brand loyalty. 

 

I never said it's not allowed for people like you to review the Wizard's products. However, knowing that the Wizard gave you a very special redesign of your 8A not too long ago with his own hands increases the likelihood of brand loyalty bias in your review. Many of the other Heir Audio owners never got a CIEM personally hand crafted by the Wizard's hands.


Edited by serious7 - 10/10/13 at 11:22am
post #59 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by serious7 View Post
 

This is exactly what I mean. The 4.ai was definitely close enough to give the flavor of the 4.a. 

 

Review samples should not be made custom to the reviewer's ears. That is the opposite of what a review sample is. It becomes a customized product at the end of the day for the reviewer to keep. There does not seem any logic in sending the product back as the shell and all labor associated with building that custom "sample" will have gone to waste. 

 

If the reviewers are keeping these samples(since they are customized for their ears anyway), then that just increases the bias in the review. 

I completely disagree. Customs never sound exactly the same as their universal counterparts and reviews also have to do with more than sound like build quality and fit which are very important to a custom buyer. If Project gets a freebie from JH and Noble, where is the bias? Infact, review samples are often gifted when custom or not. At least with customs, you know the reviewer isn't just turning them for profit.

post #60 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

I completely disagree. Customs never sound exactly the same as their universal counterparts and reviews also have to do with more than sound like build quality and fit which are very important to a custom buyer. If Project gets a freebie from JH and Noble, where is the bias? Infact, review samples are often gifted when custom or not. At least with customs, you know the reviewer isn't just turning them for profit.

Then that's a difference in view point here. All I said was, give a review sample/gift of the flagship Noble CIEM to someone who is not involved with the original Wizard brand. That would give me enough justification to shell out $1500+. Your mileage and spending power however may vary from mine. 

 

:L3000:

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