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post #31 of 67

Strange. I'm now left wondering why any brands other than RME even exist. The pinnacle has been reached-measurements are all inclusive-prove me otherwise. Man I love this place. :rolleyes:

 

-Daniel

post #32 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldDumsfeld View Post
 

How transparent does a DAC have to be to be more transparent than transparent?

 

RME gear is what the recording and broadcasting professional use. It might be able to spend more money on domestic equipment that measures better than RME in theory. However,  since humans cannot actually hear any difference that's moot anyway. Secondly, since the music you buy and the broadcasts you listen too have been made on pro grade kit it wouldn't really matter what the theoretical advantage would be since you cannot add what isn't there in the first place.

 

UCX is top of the range. A generation later than the, already impeccable, Fireface400  range. Fastest and lowest latency of any comparable unit on the market at the time of release. Despite being USB. That in itself is a credit to the software and hardware design. Got a remote control too.

 

I understand there are people here who still think different brands of cable sound different. Who think their ears can hear the difference between 0.005% and 0.0004% distortion. That's fine.

 

I'm simply pointing people who might be a little more open minded and realistic in the direction of first class gear they may not of previously considered. I'm not selling it.

 

The day you prove you can tell the difference between any RME product and the stuff you are peddling by ear alone is the day I eat my pants.


This RME equipment is not widely known/used in audiophile circles. It might be as you say popular in broadcasting but they have different goals and problems to solve. Horses for courses.

post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldDumsfeld View Post
 

How transparent does a DAC have to be to be more transparent than transparent?

 

RME gear is what the recording and broadcasting professional use. It might be able to spend more money on domestic equipment that measures better than RME in theory. However,  since humans cannot actually hear any difference that's moot anyway. Secondly, since the music you buy and the broadcasts you listen too have been made on pro grade kit it wouldn't really matter what the theoretical advantage would be since you cannot add what isn't there in the first place.

 

UCX is top of the range. A generation later than the, already impeccable, Fireface400  range. Fastest and lowest latency of any comparable unit on the market at the time of release. Despite being USB. That in itself is a credit to the software and hardware design. Got a remote control too.

 

I understand there are people here who still think different brands of cable sound different. Who think their ears can hear the difference between 0.005% and 0.0004% distortion. That's fine.

 

I'm simply pointing people who might be a little more open minded and realistic in the direction of first class gear they may not of previously considered. I'm not selling it.

 

The day you prove you can tell the difference between any RME product and the stuff you are peddling by ear alone is the day I eat my pants.

Maybe the newer unit has better DA conversion, but i suspect its not a serious difference.

 

Punch of my friends and i myself heard noticeable differences with Yulong D100 (<500$) vs FF400 A-B listening to great speakers. 

I am not speaking of subtle differences, frequency range extremes were a lot muddier and sound-stage not as well defined with RME FF400. (Bearing in mind that D100 is a bright dac and not absolutelly neutral. Even then i would use D100 instead as a dac even while mastering a track.) 

I used FF400 for many years and thought that it is the end of the line digital to analog conversion. As i have discovered i was wrong. Its good but not nearly best of the best. 

No argument that in world class recording RME stuff is used, but as far as i know  it is as mixer interface as in this it is unbeatable (no ad/da conversion).

And  I agree, AD is actually awesome on the FF400, but still iv'e been in recording business myself and there are subjectively even better gear available than RME. It's not all about measuring good, well known here i think.

Also firewire drivers were a nightmare with RME in my experience.

Software and features were very good, but mostly not needed for everyday listening.

Finally i think RME as a dac only solution is way over-paid. I would not recommend it as such. 

As a complete recording solution it is an excellent value.

Apologies if a bit OT.

post #34 of 67
Quote:
i think RME as a dac only solution is way over-paid.

 

Except that it's actually cheaper than the 'audiophile' grade stuff.

 

So you get all the extras for free. Plus the reliability. And the support. Not to mention the best drivers in the business, without question.

 

Agreed. Spending over $1000 on a simple stereo in/stereo out DAC would be a total waste of money unless the rest of your gear is worth well North of $20,000. Not counting room treatment. Big studios might use $3,000 Weiss units but then they have clients to impress, money to burn and probably over $100,000 worth of gear already. They probably use RME, Metric Halo or Apogee for day to day tasks anyway. Same as they have a 10,000kW monster far field system to impress clients but work on 5-7" near fields from Genelec, ADAM, Neuman etc for the most part.

 

You can get an RME basic I/O DAC.

 

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_adi_2.php

 

Although for the domestic user this is probably perfect and a lot less than the OP wants to spend.

 

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_babyface.php

 

If you can really hear the difference between different DACs (that are not broken, badly designed, incorrectly installed or deliberately non transparent) then good luck to you. You are an exceptional individual. Even so. Are the differences you claim to detect so great as to warrant the expense? Wouldn't it be far, far more cost effective to get better transducers or room treatment?

post #35 of 67

Interesting that the Chorc QuteHD hasn't been mentioned. Is this DAC unable to hold its own in this class?

post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post

Interesting that the Chorc QuteHD hasn't been mentioned. Is this DAC unable to hold its own in this class?
From what I've read, the chord is a very capable dac. I believe the OP actually had one as well.
post #37 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKen23 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post

Interesting that the Chorc QuteHD hasn't been mentioned. Is this DAC unable to hold its own in this class?
From what I've read, the chord is a very capable dac. I believe the OP actually had one as well.


Chord is good, but Qute requires a lot of extra components to sound its best, PSU, USB/SPDIF converter (onboard USB is not so hot, that could have changed with QuteEX), all that will easily push it over $2K and you end up with a pile of aesthetically non matching components to wire together, the stuff I was trying to avoid as been there already.

Plus there is no integrated headamp in the unit, so you would need something to cover that as well.

post #38 of 67
Lynx Hilo is $1850. I think it compares well with the M51 and D2.
post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post
 


Chord is good, but Qute requires a lot of extra components to sound its best, PSU, USB/SPDIF converter (onboard USB is not so hot, that could have changed with QuteEX), all that will easily push it over $2K and you end up with a pile of aesthetically non matching components to wire together, the stuff I was trying to avoid as been there already.

Plus there is no integrated headamp in the unit, so you would need something to cover that as well.

 

Interesting. Thanks.

 

This is kind of what I'm gathering from various sources around the web. Lots of potential, but takes money, work and wires to get there. Will be interesting to see whether the QuteEX has remedies these issues.

 

I can get the Qute for 1k. Thinking about going for it and adding the PSU and converter down the road. Don't do headphones, so no problem there........

post #40 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

Lynx Hilo is $1850. I think it compares well with the M51 and D2.


I am pretty sure it was mentioned already and if not, everyone was thinking about it. :D

Sounds like right now it boils down to:

- Anedio D2 (no DSD, specific treble hot signature, not sure about USB input quality)

- M51 (too big, no DSD, USB is not the best)

- Linx Hilo (only DSD64, not sure about USB quality, useless for most ADC but you pay for it)

- Yulong DA8 (full DSD/DXD support, stellar USB, preamp function, not too shabby integrated amp. Comparison review with Hilo are mixed, some state that SQ difference virtually non existent, some greatly favor Hilo. Even if HIlo sounds like 5% better, DA8 is almost half of the Hilo price)

 

For now I ended up with Yulong but keep eying Hilo as a possible step up.


Edited by Andrew_WOT - 10/30/13 at 7:06pm
post #41 of 67
Oops. Didn't read the original post. My bad.
post #42 of 67

If anyone cares for DSD-capable DACs, here is quite a comprehensive list that Iv'e yet seen better.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE

 

The AudioByte gear gets my attention.

 

By the way, this thread definitely calls for some...

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

post #43 of 67

Used Metrum HEX? I shouldn't really posting this, as I never tried any of their products higher than Octave MKI, but HEX seem to be a very good DAC. There is also Octave MKII, but I wasn't that impressed with MKI, so, don't think it will be much better, maybe a little.

 

You can read up here about HEX, where they also compared to Vega.


Edited by Blackmore - 10/31/13 at 9:58pm
post #44 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post
 

Used Metrum HEX? I shouldn't really posting this, as I never tried any of their products higher than Octave MKI, but HEX seem to be a very good DAC. There is also Octave MKII, but I wasn't that impressed with MKI, so, don't think it will be much better, maybe a little.

 

You can read up here about HEX, where they also compared to Vega.

$3500 with USB, I believe.

post #45 of 67
Yes, agree, not cheap, that’s why I wrote USED, as if I was looking for DAC with budget of USD2k, I would definitely looked at used market instead of fully new with premium price, but that’s me.
As far as I know, USB is standard on board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post

$3500 with USB, I believe.
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