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NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!! - Page 29

post #421 of 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

OK. I see what your saying now. That with these cheapy tubes, there's no guarantee what they are going to do. That the tubes in the prototype I have may probably not be a representative sample in terms of tube microphonics, or at least the manageability of such? Well, all I can say is that it's Schiit's ass on the the line and that I personally would give them the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, Schiit may do some sorting of the tubes themselves. Maybe Schiit is working on methods to damp microphonics before the production amps are being made? I don't know. I'm not privy to Schiit's engineering and production decisions.

 

What I don't understand is why you continue to sow seeds of fear and doubt when you haven't heard the amp, haven't handled the amp, etc. What is it? Are you are afraid this amp is going to hurt your business as an MOT or something?

 

 

 

I also don't understand why you continued to be so obsessed with this issue. As I've said already, the ringing / microphonics is not an issue after about a minute. Less so for insensitive cans. What are you trying to do is to create an argument against an issue which either does not exist or has already been acknowledged. (I think people can decide for themselves if they feel comfortable with the behavior of the tubes in the Vali; and I'm sure Schiit being Schiit will fully disclose the microphonics issue in a FAQ on their website.)

 

And you keep hammering on $5000 headphones $5000 headphones $5000 headphones. So what? First you say it's ludicrous, then you say you shouldn't have said ludicrous, and now you say it's incautious? Why is this incautious? Are you saying $5000 headphones must be used with $5000 amps? (I've lived with $5000 / $10000 amps, been there, done that.) What kind of nonsense is that? Or are you saying that Schiit should do a billet aluminum version with viscoelastic tube dampers and price the Vali at $2000? Would that make you feel better? Would that make it more acceptable for the praise I've put upon it?

 

BTW, I plan on using the Vali with my Abyss AB-1266 until I have something more suitable. (Unless Jason tells me it's dangerous.) The Mjolnir is currently tied up running speakers until I get my semi-custom EC amp in, which will be probably middle of next year, and Vahalla's output Z is too high. Yeah - you're probably gonna say I'm incautious too for running speakers from the Mjolnir.

 

The whole point of this is you're trying to excuse tube microphonics.  Heck, you even suggest the microphonic ringing can add to the listening experience.  Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?  Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?  Then show your testing plots, give your cautionary statements about the ringing and high output impedance (actually a false focus, IMHO) and leave it at that.  But no, among other things, you have to claim that microphonics can somehow add to the listening experience (sympathetic microphonics?).  Yeah, that's entirely possible ... but it's also entirely random.

 

I don't care whether the amp is good - it very well may be.  I've stated before that Schiit is one of the best things to happen to Head-Fi and the headphone culture: affordable, quality amps and DACs.  I don't doubt that the Vali is any different in its proper context.  Instead, it's your gushing for a $119 microphonic amp and recommendation to pair it with $5000 headphones that has me troubled.

 

Just because I'm a MOT, it doesn't mean you can take cheap shots, either - even though you seem to fall back on that in every post.  From my perspective (a formerly trusting one) you seem to enjoy a reputation of testing and measurement.  Well, a responsibility goes along with that.  For instance, why are you going to wait until "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"  Does not the database of measurements that you produce tell you enough?  Are you now stating that all of this thread is suspect unless "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"

 

 

EDIT: Sorry.  That's more negative than just about anything I've ever said on Head-Fi.  Mods, please delete if you think appropriate.  I'm just a little crazy at the idea of tube microphonics becoming the norm for $5000 headphones.


Edited by tomb - 10/18/13 at 6:55pm
post #422 of 4122

You guys are fighting over a literal box of Schiit. AWESOME.  

 

Side Q: Any tests done with the HD650? Getting the sense these are bright-ish amps (brighter than the Magni, at least, which was itself slightly treble-happy from what I've read), so would they ruin the smooth, laid-backness of these headphones?

post #423 of 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simanick View Post
 

You guys are fighting over a literal box of Schiit.

That much is true, for sure. ;)

 

I will quit fighting ... it's not good.

post #424 of 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

The whole point of this is you're trying to excuse tube microphonics....But no, among other things, you have to claim that microphonics can somehow add to the listening experience (sympathetic microphonics?).  Yeah, that's entirely possible ... but it's also entirely random.

 

Instead, it's your gushing for a $119 microphonic amp and recommendation to pair it with $5000 headphones that has me troubled.

 

 

Dude, give it a rest. Honestly I'd appreciate it if you stopped distorting the original context of my comments regarding microphonics and the use of Abyss with the Vali.

 

  1. Nowhere did I ever indicate that tube microphonics is something desirable. In any case, the initial tube microphonics disappear after thirty to sixty seconds. It remains fairly stable and impervious against additional microphonics unless one slams on the desk or hits the chassis of the amp. You seem hell bent on making the Vali microphonics sound much worse than it really is. It's a temporary issue immediately after turn-on and switching headphones.
  2. Nowhere did I ever explicitly recommend the Vali as the amp to pair with the Abyss. Now I did mention (on another website mind you), that "I'd hook up the Vali to the Abyss and call it day". I don't see what the problem is with this statement unless you are some sort of audio snob. Quite honestly, I see no problem with those wishing to run their Abyss from an Asus Xonar soundcard. I dunno. What you do suggest? Pairing the Abyss up with less resolving amps <$1k amps from Woo and Burson? I also have a Mjolnir, but I prefer the Vali over the Mjolnir in many instances, especially for those headphones which don't need the power and driver control of the Mjolnir. I don't understand what your problem with this is? Oh wait, it's a "microphonic" amp. In that case, please re-read #1 above.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb View Post

 

Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?  Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?  

 

Do you think the Vali is the first piece of gear that I've had the privilege to listen to before most others? I mean who exactly are you to tell me what to say? Who assigned you the role of the Righteous Gatekeeper of Allowable Hype on Head-Fi? 

 

I typically note negatives of gear rather then write positive things about them. I get criticized for being a "hater" (K3003, HD700, Meridian Explorer, SRH1440, Leben, etc.). I heard the Vali, I loved it. I thought it punched well above its weight class, doing many and most things better than amps up to $1500. I rarely get excited by gear, but this piece I did get excited about. So I wanted to talk about it and let the general HF community know about it. It's a little bit of change of pace for me.

 

Other people "hype" all the time here. Warren does it. Mike Mercer does it. Project86 does it. Skylab does it. LFF used to do it sparingly. Jude certainly does it. Some other people even hype stuff that is measurably (and subjectively sonically bad). I don't even get paid for this, nor do I get a free Vali, nor does Jason sponsor my website, nor does Jason approach me. In fact, I believe this is the first time I've brought attention to something I really liked. So seriously, what is your problem dude? 

 

More than anything else, it sounds like you are sore because you weren't able to offer anything like this yourself. You may as well not even bother listening to it since you seem so dismissive and biased against Schiit - that they provide "affordable, quality amps and DACs." The fact is, with some on their new stuff like the Asgard 2, I am starting to feel that they are not only "value" leaders, but also provide great stuff in pure absolute terms.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

Just because I'm a MOT, it doesn't mean you can take cheap shots, either - even though you seem to fall back on that in every post.  From my perspective (a formerly trusting one) you seem to enjoy a reputation of testing and measurement.  Well, a responsibility goes along with that.  For instance, why are you going to wait until "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"  Does not the database of measurements that you produce tell you enough?  Are you now stating that all of this thread is suspect unless "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"

 

Again, give it a rest dude. The Vali's microphonics are not going to blow up anything. I know from my testing that the amp is safe. (There are plenty of measurements on the Vali already if you know where to look.) If you took the Vali apart and examined its design/topology, you would probably also gain insights into why it sounds as good as it does.

 

Again, you've purposely taken one of my statements (one made in irony) "Until Jason tells me it's dangerous" and perverted it into another one of your semantic arguments. Now - you do realize that I only made that statement because of your preposterous suppositions (indirect implications because direct implications would be too strong a claim on your part as an MOT) that Brownian motion in air particles or simply blowing on the Vali would cause microphonics resulting in the diaphragm of the Abyss to fly out of the headphone.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

EDIT: Sorry.  That's more negative than just about anything I've ever said on Head-Fi.  Mods, please delete if you think appropriate.  I'm just a little crazy at the idea of tube microphonics becoming the norm for $5000 headphones.

 

 

People run microphonic tubes on $3500, $4000, $5000, $10,000 headamps. Why should Vali be scrutinized more? Because it costs less?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

That much is true, for sure. ;)

 

I will quit fighting ... it's not good.

 

I'm still ill and recovering so I've got nothing else to do. Please keep going. Maybe I'd respect more of what you had to say if you had actually handled or hear the Vali yourself.


Edited by purrin - 10/19/13 at 12:14am
post #425 of 4122

Man i'm really tempted to order pizza right now...do you think I should ?

post #426 of 4122

 

Incoming !!!

 

I love Pete the Pizzamaker

post #427 of 4122

I've watched them in the store doing an order. There is no actual tracking, it is an automated timer :(

post #428 of 4122
C'mon everyone, lets get the post count to 1000 before schiitments are made!
post #429 of 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodan818 View Post
 

I've watched them in the store doing an order. There is no actual tracking, it is an automated timer :(

 

I think you're right because when it says they left the store I heard my doorbell buzzer. Liars!

 

 

post #430 of 4122

Domino's has some of the best crusts in the business. That garlic salt mixture around the edges has deep flavor extension, with the bread providing a hint of airiness up top. By far my favorite has to be the smooth creamy midrange however, which is where all the toppings are. You can't beat it for the price; I think it beats the Schiit Vali in value.

post #431 of 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simanick View Post
 

You guys are fighting over a literal box of Schiit. AWESOME.  

 

Side Q: Any tests done with the HD650? Getting the sense these are bright-ish amps (brighter than the Magni, at least, which was itself slightly treble-happy from what I've read), so would they ruin the smooth, laid-backness of these headphones?

 

I tested the Vali amp my HD558 (which given their lower impedance are probably more susceptible to amp coloration) and don't think they made my phones bright at all.

 

I think you should still get the smoothness of these cans.

 

@Tomb, I really admire both your kits (Torpedo, Starving Student, and the MiniMax) and your support for the DIY community. But what would you say if things went down more like this:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simanick View Post
 

You guys are fighting over a literal Beezar MiniMax pile box of FAIL. AWESOME.  

 

That much is true, for sure. ;)

 

I will quit fighting ... it's not good.

 
 
Some people are putting quite a bit of effort into delivering a great little amp at a great price, and not sure if you realize that you are taking a dump on that too.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

 

The whole point of this is you're trying to excuse tube microphonics.  Heck, you even suggest the microphonic ringing can add to the listening experience.  Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?  Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?  Then show your testing plots, give your cautionary statements about the ringing and high output impedance (actually a false focus, IMHO) and leave it at that.  But no, among other things, you have to claim that microphonics can somehow add to the listening experience (sympathetic microphonics?).  Yeah, that's entirely possible ... but it's also entirely random.

 

I don't care whether the amp is good - it very well may be.  I've stated before that Schiit is one of the best things to happen to Head-Fi and the headphone culture: affordable, quality amps and DACs.  I don't doubt that the Vali is any different in its proper context.  Instead, it's your gushing for a $119 microphonic amp and recommendation to pair it with $5000 headphones that has me troubled.

 

Just because I'm a MOT, it doesn't mean you can take cheap shots, either - even though you seem to fall back on that in every post.  From my perspective (a formerly trusting one) you seem to enjoy a reputation of testing and measurement.  Well, a responsibility goes along with that.  For instance, why are you going to wait until "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"  Does not the database of measurements that you produce tell you enough?  Are you now stating that all of this thread is suspect unless "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"

 

 

EDIT: Sorry.  That's more negative than just about anything I've ever said on Head-Fi.  Mods, please delete if you think appropriate.  I'm just a little crazy at the idea of tube microphonics becoming the norm for $5000 headphones.

 

 

I don't think anybody is saying that microphonics are good. One either deals with this transient issue or not. If we can get over that, we can talk about the sound, and I can tell you it's pretty damn good.

 

Regarding MOT "cheap shots", what do you think these leading questions are and imply:

 

"Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?"

"Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?"

 

To address some of the concerns:

 

1) "high output impedance (actually a false focus, IMHO)"

 

The Vali is about < 6.4 ohms. I don't think that's all that high for a Tube amp. How much is your MiniMax, Torpedo and Starving Student?

 

Lets take a look at the much more expensive and very well regarded Pinnacle (http://www.apexhifi.com/Pinnacle.htm). I may be reading wrong, but in IEM mode it seems to be 8 ohms. Does that make it bad and unworthy of $5000 phones? Most likely not.

 

2) ... wait until "Jason tells me it's dangerous?" ...

 

I don't think it's dangerous... do you? 

 

3) I'm just a little crazy at the idea of tube microphonics becoming the norm for $5000 headphones.

 

Microphonics are in this case a relatively brief transient problem. Once the mechanical vibration settles it is not a problem. I would be more concerned if the amp was heavily colored and muddy. Those problems are not brief and do not go away.

post #432 of 4122

Dear lord! I can't wait till Schiit starts selling the Vali and all you children can start playing nice again. 

post #433 of 4122

Hmmm..might get this since it's so cheap.

 

Maybe everyone should get it so we have a common point of reference :D

post #434 of 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simanick View Post

Domino's has some of the best crusts in the business. That garlic salt mixture around the edges has deep flavor extension, with the bread providing a hint of airiness up top. By far my favorite has to be the smooth creamy midrange however, which is where all the toppings are. You can't beat it for the price; I think it beats the Schiit Vali in value.
lol very nice
post #435 of 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anavel0 View Post
 

Dear lord! I can't wait till Schiit starts selling the Vali and all you children can start playing nice again. 

 

wait what!?  each of us needs to purchase and hear a Vali personally before reporting an opinion on it's sonic quality??

all of head-fi just shut down with your new (but nice idea) "valid"dation criteria.

cheers.

:beyersmile:

 

ps.  I'll be buying a Vali because it is cheap and could light a fire on my HD600s.

why not?  what is to lose?

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