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NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!! - Page 258

post #3856 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.T. View Post
 

 

The tube input stage is the only difference as far as I know.

 

Schiit may have tweaked the parameters of the Vali's solid state output stage to better accommodate the tubed input stage. So the output stage on both amps may or may not be exactly the same.

 

But conceptually, the amp is a volume pot, input stage, output stage. The only difference being the input stage, and whatever adjustments to the output stage.

 

Maybe its just me, but I find it so interesting changing the input stage altered the sound as much as it did.  While not a huge difference, I did find it easily noticeable.

 

I'll have to do a little more digging, as the tech side of things seems to be calling my name lately.

post #3857 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogSavior View Post
 

 

Maybe its just me, but I find it so interesting changing the input stage altered the sound as much as it did.  While not a huge difference, I did find it easily noticeable.

 

I'll have to do a little more digging, as the tech side of things seems to be calling my name lately.

 

Yeah, the difference between can be amazing.

 

Tubes and solid state sound different, no doubt. Both have the potential to sound very good, but they surely sound different.

 

That's why changing one stage in the amp from solid state to tubes, especially an early stage, can dramatically impact the sound.

 

You will also find that huge differences can exist between solid state components, as well. It's not just a difference between tubes and solid state.

 

For example, changing out one solid state transistor for another can yield subtle or big changes in the sound as well.

 

And anyone who has swapped op-amps in an amplifier can tell you how much that can change the sound.

 

So don't surprised that the difference is large.

post #3858 of 4091

:dt880smile: AFAIK The magni boasts a higher Wattage output and significantly less THD than the Vali. It also supposedly sounds MUCH more Clinical than the Vali. The reason the Vali sounds the way it does ie: warmer, is due primarily to the HIGHER distortion level provided by the Tubes. This might sound contrary to what it should be except that a Tube analog wave signal is chocked full of even-order harmonics, which are pleasing to human hearing. You interpret these harmonics as a "Warmth" or "Full-bodiedness" of sound.

 

Layman's explanation is best I can do.

 

:atsmile::atsmile: TWIN

post #3859 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinACStacks View Post
 

:dt880smile: AFAIK The magni boasts a higher Wattage output and significantly less THD than the Vali. It also supposedly sounds MUCH more Clinical than the Vali. The reason the Vali sounds the way it does ie: warmer, is due primarily to the HIGHER distortion level provided by the Tubes. This might sound contrary to what it should be except that a Tube analog wave signal is chocked full of even-order harmonics, which are pleasing to human hearing. You interpret these harmonics as a "Warmth" or "Full-bodiedness" of sound.

 

Layman's explanation is best I can do.

 

:atsmile::atsmile: TWIN

 

You must be a fan of SS amps :D

 

I find Vali very nice in that it removes the harshness in the highs. The harshness in treble might be exaggerated in SS amps though, i believe.

post #3860 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by cddc View Post

 

You must be a fan of SS amps :D

 

I find Vali very nice in that it removes the harshness in the highs. The harshness in treble might be exaggerated in SS amps though, i believe.

 

Exaggerated treble harshness is a typical problem in poorly implemented SS amps, not just SS amps in general.

post #3861 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.T. View Post
 

 

The tube input stage is the only difference as far as I know.

 

 

Um, no--it's a completely different topology. The only thing that is remotely similar is the Class-AB output stage. And even that isn't all that close.

post #3862 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post
 

 

 

Um, no--it's a completely different topology. The only thing that is remotely similar is the Class-AB output stage. And even that isn't all that close.

 

Ah, so it isn't simply a modified Magni. Though maybe the fact that it is a hybrid means the Magni design couldn't have been reworked with good result?  I don't know nearly enough about amp design to really make that sort of judgement, but either way its interesting.

 

Thanks for commenting.

post #3863 of 4091

This is my opinion and only my opinion as to why this amp is not getting the praise it deserves.  I don't intend to offend anyone but I'm just trying to understand why it's not getting more attention.

 

To me, the Vali is good enough to be compared with TOTL amps rather than other budget amps; but I do believe certain characteristics are throwing a lot of people off maybe for the following reasons:  

 

1. People who are looking for TOTL amps for their TOTL headphones are dismissing it because of it's price, form and factor.   

 

2. In stead, it draws a lot of people who buy it for the price (maybe as their first amp) and therefore, have limited experience with higher end amps and consequently are not able to evaluate it properly.  It's sounds good "for the price" type of evaluations.  Honestly, when I'm evaluating an amp, the first thing I listen for are wide soundstage, controled and hard hitting bass impact and macro level details and dynamics.  I don't tend to and I was never taught to listen for the subtle micro level details and micro level dynamics that Vali excels at.  This takes more experience (with high end amps) and even than more time to hear and appreciate.  

 

3. People who are buying the Vali are pairing with the Modi (because of the price bracket and because the Modi stacks well with the Vali) or some other budget dac or even some other budget headphone and it's limiting the potential of the Vali.  The Vali with a budget dac is going to sound like a really good budget amp.  I believe if the Vali came in the Bifrost chassis they would pair it with the Bifrost or if the Vali came in the Gungnir chassis, people would pair it with Gungnir and therefore get better reviews. 

 

4. Lastly, the Vali is not ideal with high sensitive/low impedance headphones nor ideal with high demanding hard to drive headphones like LCD-2/3.  So it kind of limits many headphones and buyers.  Personally, I do wish the Vali had more power to drive the LCD-2.  It's sublime at low to medium volumes but when I want to crank it, I can hear it loosing steam. 

 

Conclusion:

I think there are lot of amps that do many things better than the Vali.   But what the Vali does, it does well.  It's a hyper-detailed yet musical amp that focuses on micro level experience. 

 

Personally my hope is that Schiit will do a Vali 2 with a gain switch for low impedance headphones and increase the power output for Orthos without changing the nature and quality of the amp.  


Edited by sling5s - 5/3/14 at 10:40am
post #3864 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by sling5s View Post
 

This is my opinion and only my opinion as to why this amp is not getting the praise it deserves.  I don't intend to offend anyone but I'm just trying to understand why it's not getting more attention.

 

To me, the Vali is good enough to be compared with TOTL amps rather than other budget amps; but I do believe certain characteristics are throwing a lot of people off maybe for the following reasons:  

 

*snip*

 

Vali is a good amp that punches well above its weight.  I love mine and would recommend it to anyone looking for a fun, small desktop amp at any price, but I do think comparing it to a ToTL amp is a bit of exaggeration.  It has clear drawbacks that wouldn't be acceptable in a ToTL amp.

 

But it is a damn good amp that definitely deserves praise.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sling5s View Post
 

Personally my hope is that Vali will have a gain switch for low impedance headphones and increase the power output for Orthos without changing the nature and quality of the amp.  

 

At its current price point, I highly doubt it.

post #3865 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post
 

 

 

Um, no--it's a completely different topology. The only thing that is remotely similar is the Class-AB output stage. And even that isn't all that close.

 

OK, thanks for setting me straight on that!

 

Good to hear it directly from the man.

post #3866 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogSavior View Post
 

 

Vali is a good amp that punches well above its weight.  I love mine and would recommend it to anyone looking for a fun, small desktop amp at any price, but I do think comparing it to a ToTL amp is a bit of exaggeration.  It has clear drawbacks that wouldn't be acceptable in a ToTL amp.

 

But it is a damn good amp that definitely deserves praise.

 

 

At its current price point, I highly doubt it.

Yes, it's the draw backs and limitations that disqualifies it being a TOTL amp.  

And by TOTL amps I guess I mean more those in the $1000 to $2000 bracket and not those crazy boutique $3000-6000 ones.

Nevertheless, sound wise, in my opinion, it more than qualifies for conservative TOTL priced amps.  For example, sound wise, I take the Vali over the Violectric V200 any day.


Edited by sling5s - 5/1/14 at 2:42pm
post #3867 of 4091

Here's couple of reviews by Purrin that started it all: 

 

"Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Holy Schiit fantastic. This is tubes done right. We are talking about expansive soundstage, tube clarity, tube microdynamics, tube microdetail, tube dynamics and slam. (Yes, all the things which folks who haven't heard good tube amps don't think tubes sound like.) The first time I heard this, I almost pee'd in my pants. An amp this cheap shouldn't sound this good.

I would seriously buy an Abyss headphone, hook it up to the Vali, and call it a day. That's how good it is. Of all the gear I've heard in the past year, this is by far the most impressive. No words can do it justice. This is tubes done right at an impossible price."  

 

"The amp scales with DACs; e.g., differences between Gungnir, PWD2, AGD M7, can easily be heard. This includes tonal balance, resolution, etc." 

 

" Anax told me he didn't want to say anything good about it because he was afraid you guys may increase the price. But he did say it's better than any other amp below $1650 that he's heard (he hasn't heard any of your other new stuff.) Personally I think you guys should price it at $1199. Or at least put it in a huge fancy chassis and price it at $1199."

 

"mini Eddie Current'.

post #3868 of 4091

You guys are killing me here.  Yes, the Vali is good, actually very good.  Compared to the WA6 (with Sophia Princess rectifier) it's got about the same resolution, air, extension, soundstage but is a step behind in dynamics. The WA6 hits a little harder and has lusher and more realistic mids.  Overall, the Vali sounds a lot like the WA6 but a little thinner in the mids and bottom end and slightly less dynamic.  I'd say that the Vali is 85-90% of the WA6 with the SP.  Exceptionally impressive for the price difference but with the HD800, it's noticeable. On lesser cans, it may not be quite as noticeable if at all and the Vali would be the definite choice. 

Just sayin' and YMMMV :)

 

Edit: Testing Vali & WA6 simultaneously split out of the Naim DAC-V1 with AQ RCA splitters.


Edited by MickeyVee - 5/1/14 at 4:29pm
post #3869 of 4091

I been thinking about the Vali as a alt option to what I planning to go with, but I just have the feeling that I might not like it with my NFB15.32  And T90.

post #3870 of 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post
 

You guys are killing me here.  Yes, the Vali is good, actually very good.  Compared to the WA6 (with Sophia Princess rectifier) it's got about the same resolution, air, extension, soundstage but is a step behind in dynamics. The WA6 hits a little harder and has lusher and more realistic mids.  Overall, the Vali sounds a lot like the WA6 but a little thinner in the mids and bottom end and slightly less dynamic.  I'd say that the Vali is 85-90% of the WA6 with the SP.  Exceptionally impressive for the price difference but with the HD800, it's noticeable. On lesser cans, it may not be quite as noticeable if at all and the Vali would be the definite choice. 

Just sayin' and YMMMV :)

 

Edit: Testing Vali & WA6 simultaneously split out of the Naim DAC-V1 with AQ RCA splitters.

I totally agree with you.  At least from memory when I had the WA6 with Sophia.  It does have lusher mids, better macro dynamics and better bottom end.  But if my memory serves me right, I could be wrong, I still think when it comes to micro dynamics, the Vali still is a little better.   I just don't remember the WA6 giving me this kind of micro dynamics when I had it. 

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