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NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!! - Page 19

post #271 of 4245
The Modi would be a good DAC choice for the Vali right? I'm planning on getting a Modi-PYST-Vali setup as soon as orders for the Vali start.
post #272 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorseNamedJeff View Post

The Modi would be a good DAC choice for the Vali right? I'm planning on getting a Modi-PYST-Vali setup as soon as orders for the Vali start.

 

The Modi or ODAC would be a good choice for almost any budget amp, unless you want a very colored sound.

I would gladly use a Modi with a $500 amp too.


Edited by tdockweiler - 10/14/13 at 1:09pm
post #273 of 4245
ODAC is my fave dac so far. More than my NFB5's wolfson dac, the Compass 2's Sabre ES9018, the Modi, Marantz, etc.

It sounded more dimensional and realistic to me. Though I must say, to me, all DACs I have used all sounded basically the same, except the E7 which was definitely on the warm, less detailed side.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/14/13 at 1:20pm
post #274 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

ODAC is my fave dac so far. More than my NFB5's wolfson dac, the Compass 2's Sabre ES9018, the Modi, Marantz, etc.

It sounded more dimensional and realistic to me. Though I must say, to me, all DACs I have used all sounded basically the same, except the E7 which was definitely on the warm, less detailed side.

 

LOL I've owned the ODAC, Modi and Headroom Micro DAC and there's probably like less than a 2% difference in sound between them to my ears. The CS4398 DAC chipset in my Micro DAC seems a little fuller sounding than both but barely worth mentioning. I've never had any luck with budget DACs under $75. Not sure why. Even the E17 DAC is really not good enough to me.

 

You can't really compare DACs to Amps, but the ODAC and Modi sound more transparent to me than the amps they go with :biggrin:

post #275 of 4245

It seems that at the price point and a large dash of hype, most people are willing to give this amp a shot. Hmmm...

post #276 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

It seems that at the price point and a large dash of hype, most people are willing to give this amp a shot. Hmmm...

+1

If nothing else, the price point makes it with a try. This said, I'll wait until I read some reviews from actual buyers.
post #277 of 4245

that and many of us are busy trying minature triode amps already....

post #278 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

You seem to be shifting the argument. Your argument was that these tubes would keeping vibrating for minutes on end. I responded with evidence contrary to that.

 

In regards to your "number of samples" counterargument: In my experience, the microphonics of a tube, while they may vary with each individual tube, are the pretty much the same among each model (with the same plate structure.) For example, the KR PX4 I mentioned before is a highly microphonic tube. You tap on the glass, you are going to hear that! The EML 45 mesh is amazingly resilient and non-microphonic. I haven't heard KR PX4s which were less microphonic than others, nor EML 45 meshes which were microphonic, unless they were defective. To my knowledge, Raytheon hasn't made versions of the CV6088 with differing plate structures.

 

The ringing (sort of like a the ringing of bell which then decays over time) usually happens upon two scenarios: when flipping the on/off switch; and when plugging in headphones. Both of these actions physically shock the tubes more than any other action - it's the shock of the switch snapping from one position to another, and the phono jack snapping into the contacts. After this, it's extremely difficult to get the tubes to ring or even present deleterious effects for any extended (a few seconds) period of time. I could tap on the chassis, jump up and down on the floor (the kids do that for me in the house), smack on my desk, etc. Is it more sensitive than most other tube amps I've dealt with? Yes? Is it something I can live with? Absolutely for $119. Should the Vali be used as DJ's headamp at a nightclub? Probably not.

 

While I have been enamored with the sound quality of the Vali, I've also been extremely forthright of its negatives: tube microphonics, 8 ohm output impedance (soft bass, not the best control), and noise floor (not good with IEMs, Grados, AT, etc.).

 

Finally, I don't really know exactly what you are getting at concerning your own aborted or failed forays into sub-miniature tube DIY amps. As an MOT, you should at least have the grace to give Schiit, another MOT, the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing, considering that you don't even have the amp in your hands.

No, I'm not shifting the argument.  Your assessment of tube microphonics is completely off-base.  Perhaps I haven't any experience with tubes as expensive as you keep referencing, but I have handled and tested literally thousands.  The idea that you can predict microphonics down to the brand, model and plate type is ludicrous.  Maybe you can when they're $795 a pair.  When they're less than $10 and were manufactured in the numbers these were - good luck with trying to predict some consistency.  I've had tubes of the same type, same plate structure that ran the gamut of gently echoing when tapped to being impossible to even tolerate in a stable environment.  Even so, the great majority of such tubes were dead silent - microphonics, after all, is a defect in an audio tube.

 

My aborted forays have nothing to do with this.  Instead, it's about a business decision and the different choices one can take.  Pete Millett did a similar design long ago.  Jude mentioned it a ways back - the TTVJ Millett Hybrid Portable.  Pete chose to try to weed out the microphonic tubes, but it became untenable from a business perspective and he quit making them.  I talked to him personally about it.  I suppose he could've chosen to continue it, dropped the price, and simply stated that the tubes were microphonic, but he didn't.  It's interesting that Schiit apparently chose a different path.  Maybe it'll work, but accepting microphonic tubes upfront just struck me as odd in the face of the tremendous recommendations read herein.

 

You say you're upfront with the negatives - but then you recommend tube microphonics and all the rest for $5000 headphones.  I have nothing against the amp in the proper context and have often been amazed at Schiit's offerings and stated so in some of their threads.  It's your incautious context that has me concerned -

post #279 of 4245

I'm curious to see how Schiit parses out the rationale for buying Valhalla with Vali in the lineup. In the Schiit guide, "Valhalla is a great entry-level tube amp that works very well with high-impedance headphones, but don't expect it to be able handle hard-to-drive headphones, or to be ideal with IEMs." Doesn't sound much different than what we're hearing about Vali. Valhalla sports swappable tubes, an OTL design, high-quality parts, and a form factor that matches Bifrost. Is that enough to justify the 3x price premium for what's otherwise an entry level tube amp? I see Lyr in this discussion, but wouldn't Vali squeeze the viable segment for Valhalla most?

 

It's not entirely a rhetorical question since my HD 650s are a target application for Valhalla. I opted for an A2, but for $119, I might try Vali just for fun. Can't say that about Valhalla. 

 


Edited by Aerocraft67 - 10/14/13 at 2:26pm
post #280 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

No, I'm not shifting the argument.  Your assessment of tube microphonics is completely off-base.  Perhaps I haven't any experience with tubes as expensive as you keep referencing, but I have handled and tested literally thousands.  The idea that you can predict microphonics down to the brand, model and plate type is ludicrous.  Maybe you can when they're $795 a pair.  When they're less than $10 and were manufactured in the numbers these were - good luck with trying to predict some consistency.  I've had tubes of the same type, same plate structure that ran the gamut of gently echoing when tapped to being impossible to even tolerate in a stable environment.  Even so, the great majority of such tubes were dead silent - microphonics, after all, is a defect in an audio tube.

 

My aborted forays have nothing to do with this.  Instead, it's about a business decision and the different choices one can take.  Pete Millett did a similar design long ago.  Jude mentioned it a ways back - the TTVJ Millett Hybrid Portable.  Pete chose to try to weed out the microphonic tubes, but it became untenable from a business perspective and he quit making them.  I talked to him personally about it.  I suppose he could've chosen to continue it, dropped the price, and simply stated that the tubes were microphonic, but he didn't.  It's interesting that Schiit apparently chose a different path.  Maybe it'll work, but accepting microphonic tubes upfront just struck me as odd in the face of the tremendous recommendations read herein.

 

OK. I see what your saying now. That with these cheapy tubes, there's no guarantee what they are going to do. That the tubes in the prototype I have may probably not be a representative sample in terms of tube microphonics, or at least the manageability of such? Well, all I can say is that it's Schiit's ass on the the line and that I personally would give them the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, Schiit may do some sorting of the tubes themselves. Maybe Schiit is working on methods to damp microphonics before the production amps are being made? I don't know. I'm not privy to Schiit's engineering and production decisions.

 

What I don't understand is why you continue to sow seeds of fear and doubt when you haven't heard the amp, haven't handled the amp, etc. What is it? Are you are afraid this amp is going to hurt your business as an MOT or something?

 

Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

You say you're upfront with the negatives - but then you recommend tube microphonics and all the rest for $5000 headphones.  I have nothing against the amp in the proper context and have often been amazed at Schiit's offerings and stated so in some of their threads.  It's your incautious context that has me concerned.

 

I also don't understand why you continued to be so obsessed with this issue. As I've said already, the ringing / microphonics is not an issue after about a minute. Less so for insensitive cans. What are you trying to do is to create an argument against an issue which either does not exist or has already been acknowledged. (I think people can decide for themselves if they feel comfortable with the behavior of the tubes in the Vali; and I'm sure Schiit being Schiit will fully disclose the microphonics issue in a FAQ on their website.)

 

And you keep hammering on $5000 headphones $5000 headphones $5000 headphones. So what? First you say it's ludicrous, then you say you shouldn't have said ludicrous, and now you say it's incautious? Why is this incautious? Are you saying $5000 headphones must be used with $5000 amps? (I've lived with $5000 / $10000 amps, been there, done that.) What kind of nonsense is that? Or are you saying that Schiit should do a billet aluminum version with viscoelastic tube dampers and price the Vali at $2000? Would that make you feel better? Would that make it more acceptable for the praise I've put upon it?

 

BTW, I plan on using the Vali with my Abyss AB-1266 until I have something more suitable. (Unless Jason tells me it's dangerous.) The Mjolnir is currently tied up running speakers until I get my semi-custom EC amp in, which will be probably middle of next year, and Vahalla's output Z is too high. Yeah - you're probably gonna say I'm incautious too for running speakers from the Mjolnir.


Edited by purrin - 10/14/13 at 3:41pm
post #281 of 4245

I don't see what the big deal with a $120 amp being amazing is?!

 

Given the impressions of both the Geek and the Vali from RMAF, they are must buys for me. Heck, $120 for the Vali, $200 for the Geek @ current price (http://mustgeekout.com/), $5000-5500 for the Abyss, and you have one hell of a rig. 

 

I'll be pairing both with my HD800s and Paradox while I evaluate whether or not to get the Abyss.


Edited by zerodeefex - 10/14/13 at 3:54pm
post #282 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerodeefex View Post

I don't see what the big deal with a $120 amp being amazing is?!

Given the impressions of both the Geek and the Vali from RMAF, they are must buys for me. Heck, $120 for the Vali, $200 for the Geek @ current price (http://mustgeekout.com/), $5000-5500 for the Abyss, and you have one hell of a rig. 

I'll be pairing both with my HD800s and Paradox while I evaluate whether or not to get the Abyss.
I always LOVE when companies put absolutely no REAL specifications on a product. 'Awesomifier' doesn't cut it bob. We need specs. At least the sample rate for the DAC...
post #283 of 4245

I've been reading a little about the TTVJ Millett Hybrid. Seems it was a battery operated portable. I can understand that microphonics would be a problem for a pocket portable amp. The Vali is a wallwart slave and is not moving anywhere. I see it as a small form factor desktop amp, which stacks nicely with the Magni and Modi.

 

One of the things I find remarkable about the Vali is the sense of detail one gets from it while not being fatiguing with my HD558. It's a pretty fun little amp.

post #284 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorseNamedJeff View Post


I always LOVE when companies put absolutely no REAL specifications on a product. 'Awesomifier' doesn't cut it bob. We need specs. At least the sample rate for the DAC...

 

Specs on this page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gavn8r/geek-a-new-usb-awesomifier-for-headphones . See specs after PRODUCT UPDATE section.

post #285 of 4245
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorseNamedJeff View Post
I always LOVE when companies put absolutely no REAL specifications on a product. 'Awesomifier' doesn't cut it bob. We need specs. At least the sample rate for the DAC...

 

Some folks who are overly harsh on products (not the usual shills we get here) came back from RMAF pleasantly surprised. I'll still reserve judgement until I have it in hand. They also posted a bunch of specs to their kickstarter:

 

Three Geek types: 1 - Geek, 2 - Super Geek, 3 - Super-Duper Geek

Two outputs on all types (2 x 3.5 mm jack): line and headphones, both are variable in digital domain (64bit precision)

Volume control: two buttons and software (Operation System main volume slider sends volume data to Geek which implements the volume change in its internal volume control)

Line-out output impedance: 47 Ohm (on all types)

Headphone output impedance: 0.47 Ohm (on all types)

Max output voltage (line-out and headphone): 2.65 Vrms (Geek), 3,4 Vrms (Super Geek), 4 Vrms (Super-Duper Geek)

Max output power (headphone, 16 Ohm): 450 mW (Geek), 720 mW (Super Geek), 1000 mW (Super-Duper Geek)

Native decoded  music format in PCM: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176,4, 192, 352.8, 384 kHz / 16, 24, 32 bits.

Native decoded digital format in DSD: 2.822, 3.072, 5.644, 6.144 mHz / 1 bit

"Class A" analogue output stage, THD+N better than 0.005 %, SNR is 103dB (none-weighted), 109dB (A-weighted)

Sample rate indicator LEDs, machined aluminum enclosure in three different colors, with 6" USB cable, driver for PC (plug and play on MAC and Linux)

 

Back to the Vali, I'll be buying one day one, but won't comment on the sound until I can make observations myself.


Edited by zerodeefex - 10/14/13 at 4:30pm
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