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NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!! - Page 132

post #1966 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post
 

"When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than its power supply can produce, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal can be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping". The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a sine wave becoming a distorted square-wave-type waveform."

 

I think it sum up what I mean by distortion, in fact it's more "clipping" according to wikipedia.

 

Yes, but what does it sound like to you?  Can you describe what you hear that seems off at specific times in the song?

post #1967 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by wes008 View Post
 

But what does it sound like to YOU?  We all know what clipping technically is.  We want to know how the Vali sonically performs with the T1.

Well, I guess that it sound to me the same way as it is technically sounding... Clipping is clipping no mater who listen to it.

 

But for sure, I'm used to drive my T1 with an amp able to deliver 1,7 watts @ 600ohm and the vali is a 0,1 watts @ 600ohm. 

 

So when you only have 6% of the power available it should come at no surprise that I think it's really easy to make it clip. 

post #1968 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.T. View Post

I was bummed that I had a potentially orphaned Magni after the Vali arrived. But the Magni will have a place driving my HE-400s and 500s.

Oh wait.... I have an Asgard 2 coming. Will the Magni become an orphan, yet?

 

Depends on how good your DAC is. The driver control advantages of the Magni with headphones such as the HE400, HE500, HD650 are likely outweigh any "benefits" of the Vali with a modest DAC. Once you move up to something decent, it becomes a more difficult call. As has been said numerous times, especially earlier on in this thread, ultimate driver control is not a strength of the Vali. It never will be with that 8 ohm output Z.

 

The question is what level (if any) of DAC'age will yield a sufficiently convincing "goose bump" or "chill run down spine" factor which will allow us to overlook the lack of ultimate driver control of the Vali to favor the Vali over the Magni. (And even then, the Magni's driver control is nothing compared to the Mjolnir, and the Mjolnir's driver control is nothing compared to a good speaker power amp, and even then that's one one factor of music reproduction criteria.)

 

This is why I have urged folks with the Vali to get a better DAC. It's probable (no guarantee of course) that you will start hearing better results. Take this from somebody who has a slew of craptastic $99 DACs to $4000 DAC/USB converters in the house. But my advice is generally don't bother with the Vali if you just want to sidegrade from one $99 DAC to another $79 DAC or another $159 DAC which performs like a $69 DAC.


Edited by purrin - 12/7/13 at 10:46am
post #1969 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

 

Yes, but what does it sound like to you?  Can you describe what you hear that seems off at specific times in the song?

Well, don't get me wrong, the T1 perform way (10 times) better on the vali that the DT880 does. On the auditor the difference is not that big. The DT880 perform very well on the auditor and the T1 marginaly better, but on the vali it's an other story.

 

 

The DT880 (2003 @250ohms) have no control, and sound "wobbly" (I don't even know if it's a word). It's probably because the DT880 are harder to drive than the T1. 

 

I will give a try to the DT880 @600ohms

post #1970 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

Depends on how good your DAC is. The driver control advantages of the Magni with headphones such as the HE400, HE500, HD650 are likely outweigh any "benefits" of the Vali with a modest DAC. Once you move up to something decent, it becomes a more difficult call. As has been said numerous times, especially earlier on in this thread, ultimate driver control is not a strength of the Vali. It never will be with that 8 ohm output Z.

 

The question is what level (if any) of DAC'age will yield a sufficiently convincing "goose bump" or "chill run down spine" factor which will allow us to overlook the lack of ultimate driver control of the Vali to favor the Vali over the Magni. (And even then, the Magni's driver control is nothing compared to the Mjolnir, and the Mjolnir's driver control is nothing compared to a good speaker power amp, and even then that's one one factor of music reproduction criteria.)

 

This is why I have urged folks with the Vali to get a better DAC. It's probable (no guarantee of course) that you will start hearing better results. Take this from somebody who has a slew of craptastic $99 DACs to $4000 DAC/USB converters in the house. But my advice is generally don't bother with the Vali if you just want to sidegrade from one $99 DAC to another $79 DAC or another $159 DAC which performs like a $69 DAC.

Maybe I should upgrade my DAC then, what is the best DAC with the vali according to you?

post #1971 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post
 

Well, I guess that it sound to me the same way as it is technically sounding... Clipping is clipping no mater who listen to it.

 

But for sure, I'm used to drive my T1 with an amp able to deliver 1,7 watts @ 600ohm and the vali is a 0,1 watts @ 600ohm. 

 

So when you only have 6% of the power available it should come at no surprise that I think it's really easy to make it clip. 

 

That's not how it works. The T1 is rated at 102db at 1mw by Beyer. How loud are you listening?

post #1972 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesure View Post

The Vali will drive the Audeze cans nicely, but it's underpowered fir the HifiMan offerings.

I feel the HE-400's are great with Vali, but the HE-500 not so much, or at least not as much. Glad to hear the Audeze's work well, as I have some LCD2's on order (Black Friday awesomeness!). Would love to hear more impressions with the LCD2 specifically, being that it is a little harder to drive. Or even a comparison of the Magni and Vali with the LCD's.
post #1973 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post
 

Maybe I should upgrade my DAC then, what is the best DAC with the vali according to you?

 

Let's just say you're not tube guy and I'm not an Auditor guy and definitely not a T1 guy. Besides I'm comparing Vali to Magni, not Vali to your $2000 Auditor.


Edited by purrin - 12/7/13 at 10:57am
post #1974 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

That's not how it works. The T1 is rated at 102db at 1mw by Beyer. How loud are you listening?

I know that I hit the limit of the T1 before the amp. I have never heard any distortion with the auditor no mater how loud I drive it (with my DAC set on FIXED (max output) plugged with XLR) so my gain is pretty strong, I can only go to +6db on the auditor, after that I feel like I can blow those headphone, it really feel like an unsafe territory.

 

On the vali I can easly push it to clipping. 


Edited by hmorneau - 12/7/13 at 10:56am
post #1975 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicdub View Post


I feel the HE-400's are great with Vali, but the HE-500 not so much, or at least not as much. Glad to hear the Audeze's work well, as I have some LCD2's on order (Black Friday awesomeness!). Would love to hear more impressions with the LCD2 specifically, being that it is a little harder to drive. Or even a comparison of the Magni and Vali with the LCD's.

 

Agreed. The HE-400 are much easier to drive. The HE-500s have a strong tendency of being muddy and ill-defined - they need a lot more.

post #1976 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post
 

I know that I hit the limit of the T1 before the amp. I have never heard any distortion with the auditor no mater how loud I drive it (with my DAC set on FIXED (max output) plugged with XLR) so my gain is pretty strong, I can only go to +6db on the auditor, after that I feel like I can blow those headphone, it really feel like an unsafe territory.

 

On the vali I can easly push it to clipping. 

 

Try lowering output on your DAC?

post #1977 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

Let's just say you're not tube guy and I'm not an Auditor guy and definitely not a T1 guy.

What not to like about the Auditor? It take the source and it amp it, nothing added, nothing substracted.

 

You can hear everything, small glitch in a recording, you can hear so many things.

post #1978 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post
 

What not to like about the Auditor? It take the source and it amp it, nothing added, nothing substracted.

 

You can hear everything, small glitch in a recording, you can hear so many things.

 

Slight treble etch added and lots information subtracted compared to better amps, of which there are many, and most more expensive. Also slightly flat and compressed. I've done direct comparisons with the Auditor with other amps using the same DAC and headphones. But we are getting off topic.

 

BTW, in regards to getting a better DAC, and I don't know if you actually read what I wrote, but my comments were in the context of comparing Vali to Magni. Not Vali to $2000 Auditor.


Edited by purrin - 12/7/13 at 11:07am
post #1979 of 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

Slight treble etch added and lots information subtracted compared to better amps, of which there are many, and most more expensive. But we are getting off topic.

 

BTW, in regards to getting a better DAC, and I don't know if you actually read what I wrote, but my comments were in the context of comparing Vali to Magni. Not Vali to $2000 Auditor.

Well, do you think the vali deliver more details than the auditor? If so, we don't agree here.

 

About the DAC thing, you said that the vali will be more detailled with a better dac, I have a W4S DAC2, what I should upgrade to?

post #1980 of 4963

Got my Vali today and hooked it up to the Modi (disconnected the Magni)..

 

I got some minor microphonics when I first turned it on (I made it a point to power it on before connecting my headphones so i could see how bad they were)

 

I also hear a little when I touch the volume pot, but not if there is music playing.

 

When I'm not messing with the volume pot and there's no music playing, I don't hear any noise at all. I was worried that my SRH1840s would be sensitive enough to hear noise from the vali, but thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case. 

 

edit - I take that back, I do hear a bit of noise, but it's not bothersome. 

 

I'm only about 30 minutes in to listening on the Vali and it already sounds better to me than the Magni with these headphones.

 

All of this DAC talk has got me thinking about a BiFrost Uber and selling the Magni/Modi combo.

 

Going to put 100 or so hours through the Vali before I do anything too crazy, though.


Edited by Robobandit - 12/7/13 at 1:14pm
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