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post #466 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

I think you may have some reading difficulty, but I'm sticking with it. There comes a point in high fidelity audio where there's no objectivity in terms of what sounds better. Oh sure, you can say that this or that has better charts or graphs, but that doesn't mean it sounds better. Otherwise everyone would have the same headphones, wouldn't they? If objectively better existed, there would only be one headphone at the top that everyone owns, and yet, somehow... that's not the case. Funny, you'd almost think it's all SUBJECTIVE or something.

 

Weird...

Your statement "I'm really of the opinion that eventually there is no such thing as objectively better" and following..., is a logical 'fallacy of relative to absolute'. You claim that all things are the same because the values or parameters of a few number of things within a whole are [presumably] debatable therefore the values or parameters of all things are debatable. In other words you claim that all headphones are the same and the miserable Beats junk is as good as Fostex TH900 because there is a disagreement over whether Sennheiser HD800 are better headphones than HiFiMan He-6. Or in other other words, you say that because some women are whores therefore all women are whores. If all things are the same, am I as good a composer as Beethoven ?

A related note : A major error and stumbling block of argumentation on head-fi of what is 'better', is the lack of defining what constitutes 'good'. Members who have wild notions about what is good regarding the sound, pass their subjective preferences as objective values.

 

"If objectively better existed, there would only be one headphone at the top that everyone owns..."

Not really, it only proves that many have no clue what is good sound and also that many cannot afford to spend 1000 plus on headphones. [...consider also an important variable of people having unequal hearing abilities and the lack of education and sophistication]. There are many who consider 'Lady Gaga' to be better than Mozart.


Edited by zorin - 4/5/14 at 11:16pm
post #467 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorin View Post
 

Your statement "I'm really of the opinion that eventually there is no such thing as objectively better" and following..., is a logical 'fallacy of relative to absolute'. You claim that all things are the same because the values or parameters of a few number of things within a whole are [presumably] debatable therefore the values or parameters of all things are debatable. In other words you claim that all headphones are the same and the miserable Beats junk is as good as Fostex TH900 because there is a disagreement over whether Sennheiser HD800 are better headphones than HiFiMan He-6. Or in other other words, you say that because some women are whores therefore all women are whores. If all things are the same, am I as good a composer as Beethoven ?

A related note : A major error and stumbling block of argumentation on head-fi of what is 'better', is the lack of defining what constitutes 'good'. Members who have wild notions about what is good regarding the sound, pass their subjective preferences as objective values.

 

"If objectively better existed, there would only be one headphone at the top that everyone owns..."

Not really, it only proves that many have no clue what is good sound and also that many cannot afford to spend 1000 plus on headphones. [...consider also an important variable of people having unequal hearing abilities and the lack of education and sophistication]. There are many who consider 'Lady Gaga' to be better than Mozart.

No, what I think he is trying to say that after a certain point, you can't a say a headphone is better than the other. Obviously, a pair apple earpods doesn't sound as good as something like the HD800 ,but what if it were an HD800 vs. an LCD-2, would it be so easy to decide which is better. Headphones within the same price range, same type of driver, same type etc. SomeGuyDude is trying to say that it's not so easy to say that headphone A is better than headphone B , because it's all opinion's.

 

Basically, it's apple and orange's. 

post #468 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneraI View Post
 

No, what I think he is trying to say that after a certain point, you can't a say a headphone is better than the other. Obviously, a pair apple earpods doesn't sound as good as something like the HD800 ,but what if it were an HD800 vs. an LCD-2, would it be so easy to decide which is better. Headphones within the same price range, same type of driver, same type etc. SomeGuyDude is trying to say that it's not so easy to say that headphone A is better than headphone B , because it's all opinion's.

 

Basically, it's apple and orange's. 

 

He sounded completely subjective the other day, but maybe that was only push back. The obvious way out is to go objective about good and bad, and subjective about taste.

post #469 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

 

He sounded completely subjective the other day, but maybe that was only push back. The obvious way out is to go objective about good and bad, and subjective about taste.

I don't know about that. It's hard to tell the "tone" of a writer, when you can't hear them actually speaking.

 

Either way, it's hard to just be the bigger man, and walk away.

 

We can continue this in the morning, but for now I need some good music and some sleep.

post #470 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneraI View Post
 

I don't know about that. It's hard to tell the "tone" of a writer, when you can't hear them actually speaking.

 

Either way, it's hard to just be the bigger man, and walk away.

 

We can continue this in the morning, but for now I need some good music and some sleep.

 

:beerchug:

post #471 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post


Your pricing info is out of date. $1145

http://www.audeze.com/products/headphones/lcd-2

Still cheaper, but the gap is a lot closer than when LCD-2 first came out.

 

It's 995usd with the bamboo cups, which is over 600 bucks less than the HD800. A pair of HD800 used on head-fi sells for around 1100usd on average. A pair of LCD2.2 for much less. You can argue that rosewood looks better but then a custom paintjob for the HD800 isn't exactly cheap, in fact it's more expensive than the extra 150usd for the rosewood cups on the LCD-2.


Edited by elmoe - 4/6/14 at 2:20am
post #472 of 495

ATM ,the most underrated seems to be the AT M40x. Haven't heard much love for it yet, but it's amazing value for money. I actually prefer it to the M50.

 

The most overrated seems to be the VModa M100. After all that initial hype, I couldn't help but be a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it's still good, and I like it for certain periods, but it just didn't live up to the hype....IMO anyway.

post #473 of 495

I apologise for barging in. I just read the last few posts .  Just on the current line of conversation- beauty in sound is in the ear of the beholder. eg-If you're half deaf, then a HD800 or an LCD2 would be a complete waste of bikkies. The Apple earbuds would be the best then, wouldn't they?

Also I think some headphones favour some styles of music over others. So headphone preference would be dictated by musical taste to some degree.

 

eg- I listen mainly to electronic and bass heavy stuff. I absolutely hate open cans in general. Therefore I think Grados are quite overrated. Just a treble/high frequency fest where the details and instruments are just plain indistinct. Just my opinion of course.


Edited by dcfac73 - 4/6/14 at 3:48am
post #474 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

Just came across this thread, so sorry to pull a post from November.

Your argument for the HD800 being overrated is laughable. At the edge of performance is where getting everything right matters the most. I'd imagine F1 cars don't do so well with street radials.

I do agree with your comment on the Jades. Very nice, probably 90% of the HE90 at a far lower price point. Too bad they fall apart if you look at them.

To clarify- of course many expensive headphones are hard to drive and need a great amp. However with the HD800 you're in damage control mode looking for an amp to tame the harsh/analytical nature vs something else where you might have a whole host of amp options to tailor the sound. To me the only setup involving an HD800 that I've ever liked had an Eddie Current Super 7. Granted that it sounded amazing but one can get equally impressive sound out of an audeze setup with a whole host of amp choices, and probably for a lot less dough.
post #475 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfac73 View Post
 

ATM ,the most underrated seems to be the AT M40x. Haven't heard much love for it yet, but it's amazing value for money. I actually prefer it to the M50.

 

The most overrated seems to be the VModa M100. After all that initial hype, I couldn't help but be a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it's still good, and I like it for certain periods, but it just didn't live up to the hype....IMO anyway.

 

For sure, no doubt about it, most obviously so, M-100 is a mediocre sounding can dressed up pretty. 

 

It's also durable.

 

Sadly, pretty clothing and durable parts can't make this lady sound any better.


Edited by TWerk - 4/6/14 at 7:42am
post #476 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWerk View Post
 

 

For sure, no doubt about it, most obviously so, M-100 is a mediocre sounding can dressed all pretty. 

 

It's also durable.

 

Sadly, pretty clothing and durable parts can't make this lady sound better.

 

 

Haha...you will be crucified (by a band of bassheads) for writing this.

 

 

Run and hide!!!

post #477 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvergun View Post
 

 

 

Haha...you will be crucified (by a band of bassheads) for writing this.

 

 

Run and hide!!!


Well, I do like the bass, but the M100 lacked a good midrange. The sound is kind of hollow to me.

post #478 of 495
Hd600/650

Easily the most overrated cans right now

They are very nice! But not worth close to their asking price and way too recommended on here, IMO they are the athm50 of mid-fi
post #479 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post

It's 995usd with the bamboo cups, which is over 600 bucks less than the HD800. A pair of HD800 used on head-fi sells for around 1100usd on average. A pair of LCD2.2 for much less. You can argue that rosewood looks better but then a custom paintjob for the HD800 isn't exactly cheap, in fact it's more expensive than the extra 150usd for the rosewood cups on the LCD-2.
Over 600? 1499-995 = 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by levinhatz View Post

To clarify- of course many expensive headphones are hard to drive and need a great amp. However with the HD800 you're in damage control mode looking for an amp to tame the harsh/analytical nature vs something else where you might have a whole host of amp options to tailor the sound. To me the only setup involving an HD800 that I've ever liked had an Eddie Current Super 7. Granted that it sounded amazing but one can get equally impressive sound out of an audeze setup with a whole host of amp choices, and probably for a lot less dough.

I'm not taming anything in my setup. I use solid state amps that are neutral or have slight tendency towards brightness.
Edited by Maxvla - 4/6/14 at 10:24am
post #480 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

I'm not taming anything in my setup.

+1

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