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New JH Audio flagship! "Siren Series Roxanne" - Page 115

post #1711 of 8292
I did not mean school in the sense I new and he did not. So I will say now my sarcasim was meant as a pun. But if he or anyone here does have clear info I really do want that info. As for why , I have read quit a bit since posting the question . I have also posed the same question in other forums, people who design crossovers . Professionals as well
As novice and what I stated was explained to me is the same . However I would really like the why in better detail.

And thanks for pointing out my rudeness . My apologies

Al d
post #1712 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 


We should probably write an article on this or something; I realized that lots of people don't have the right idea when it comes to BA drivers and impedance, and while it's talked about a lot, it seems as though most people only understand part of the picture.

 

I myself am certainly 'guilty' (wrong choice of word but I'll roll with it) of understanding only part of the picture.

 

I'd welcome a detailed exposition.

post #1713 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 


We should probably write an article on this or something; I realized that lots of people don't have the right idea when it comes to BA drivers and impedance, and while it's talked about a lot, it seems as though most people only understand part of the picture.

I think most folks should just listen and follow the simple rules. I and I think you as well, are not spec over sound guys but there are certain guide lines that prevent mistakes. Too many folks become internet experts when given enough rope.:blink: Here's more food for misinterpretation.

 

As for the crossover, the electrical portions are generally 1st order high pass and the output impedance becomes part of the circuit so a if the tweeter impedance at the crossover point is say, 15 and the amp output is 5, the capacitor (high pass) is now working with a 20 ohm circuit. If that xover point was 5k it would now become closer to 3.5K and the device will have a bit more energy in the upper mids. Thing is, because the slopes are subtle and the BAs wide band, the amplitude difference will only be under about 1.5db max and the reliability isn't compromised.

 

You get much more deviation from a headphone like the TF10 where the tweeter impedance is about 4 ohms. You lose almost 4db in amplitude. Most single BAs have a rising impedance curve (the inductance mentioned earlier) as they increase in frequency. If they are high impedance to begin with (bass range) it's meaningless but if they start out as 8 ohm devices, the entire high frequency range will be a couple db hot and if the DAP is capacitor coupled it will lose a lot of bass at 6db per octave starting at whatever the hinge frequency is. Likely starting around 70hz. There isn't much more to know except the relationship is reversed with inductors. It's how this info is assimilated that becomes the problem. 

 

I don't specifically do this for a living and didn't get out the calculator so please don't get picky.:cool: 

 

James, Thanks for the props but I'm sure it's only because you don't need to know the minutia. Sounds better, is better always worked for me.:bigsmile_face: 


Edited by goodvibes - 12/18/13 at 8:09am
post #1714 of 8292
so, does anyone recommend these over the TG334 or even the MH335DW for edm, techno, house?
post #1715 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by delancyst View Post

so, does anyone recommend these over the TG334 or even the MH335DW for edm, techno, house?

 

I want to listen to them first before I decide. I own both those IEMs.

post #1716 of 8292
thanks dude, I'm curious as which of the three does bass the best for edm.
I know the Roxanne is adjustable so it probably wins hands down.
But I'm kind of skeptical about the harsh treble that ppl have been commenting about on the demos.
Since you own both Fitears and also listen to edm, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts of which is most suitable for edm, attributes namely bass with punch/slam plus smooth highs without been sibilant.
post #1717 of 8292
Ha ha - I've been seeing that people were saying that the treble was smoother!

Just goes to show!
post #1718 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by delancyst View Post

thanks dude, I'm curious as which of the three does bass the best for edm.
I know the Roxanne is adjustable so it probably wins hands down.
But I'm kind of skeptical about the harsh treble that ppl have been commenting about on the demos.
Since you own both Fitears and also listen to edm, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts of which is most suitable for edm, attributes namely bass with punch/slam plus smooth highs without been sibilant.

 

There are conflicting reports on this... I've seen a lot of people saying smoother and better extended treble too. Personally, I think its a fit issue. Highs can sound harsh due to improper fit. Also, those comply foams can also muffle up the sounds if not inserted correctly.

 

Trust your own ears!


Edited by z3r0day - 12/18/13 at 8:38am
post #1719 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0day View Post

 

There are conflicting reports on this... I've seen a lot of people saying smoother and better extended treble too. Personally, I think its a fit issue. Highs can sound harsh due to improper fit. Also, those comply foams can also muffle up the sounds if not inserted correctly.

 

Trust your own ears!

 

There was a person earlier in the thread who listened to these at Canjam and heard something offputting in the treble on a specific song and mentioned it to Jerry.  Came back another day and they were able to resolve it by dialing in his fit... then he made a purchase.

 

I'm hopeful that this is the case with most of these reports as well, they do seem all over the place.  I noticed a person at Mook claimed that the 3rd set he tried sounded signficantly better.

post #1720 of 8292

Forget the conflicting reports, honestly people, you should give zero importance to impressions from universals. The main reason CIEMs sound better than universals is because they fit properly and are correctly aligned (past the first bend) with your ear drum. If you look at your customs, the high frequency drivers are actually placed between the first bend and the second bend and fire almost directly past the second bend. Try that with a universal. Any variation in fit changes both the bass and treble perception significantly. A universal can only give a rough indication but it's absolutely not how your CIEM will sound. I believe the only person who has custom fitted Roxannes besides Jerry is Jude, and he said it's one of the best headphone's he's ever heard, period. So that should tell you something.

post #1721 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG87 View Post
 

Forget the conflicting reports, honestly people, you should give zero importance to impressions from universals. The main reason CIEMs sound better than universals is because they fit properly and are correctly aligned (past the first bend) with your ear drum. If you look at your customs, the high frequency drivers are actually placed between the first bend and the second bend and fire almost directly past the second bend. Try that with a universal. Any variation in fit changes both the bass and treble perception significantly. A universal can only give a rough indication but it's absolutely not how your CIEM will sound. I believe the only person who has custom fitted Roxannes besides Jerry is Jude, and he said it's one of the best headphone's he's ever heard, period. So that should tell you something.


+ agree. That's why I really took the time to get the fit right at the mook before I started listening on the universal Roxanne. I'm confident the custom should be better if not on par with what I had experience. 

post #1722 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG87 View Post
 

I believe the only person who has custom fitted Roxannes besides Jerry is Jude, and he said it's one of the best headphone's he's ever heard, period. So that should tell you something.

 

 

Jude is very experienced, but, just to be even-handed about this, he is not what I would consider to be 'unbiased'.

 

That is not to say that the Roxanne doesn't sound amazing - it may well do (and I hope it does because if it does I may eventually buy a pair myself).

 

...just sayin', is all....

 

 

(and I agree that universal-fits should not be relied upon too heavily to be an indication of the final sound of a full-custom fit).

 

.


Edited by Mython - 12/18/13 at 9:52am
post #1723 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

 

 not what I would consider to be 'unbiased'.

 

 

 

No such thing as unbiased. Best we can hope for is honesty, disclosure and hopefully self-awareness about what bias exists. 

post #1724 of 8292
That was me. Jerry said he would look into it when he got back to the office after his trip over the pond. He said if needed he would tweak it down a few dB.
post #1725 of 8292
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

I think most folks should just listen and follow the simple rules. I and I think you as well, are not spec over sound guys but there are certain guide lines that prevent mistakes. Too many folks become internet experts when given enough rope.:blink: Here's more food for misinterpretation.

 

As for the crossover, the electrical portions are generally 1st order high pass and the output impedance becomes part of the circuit so a if the tweeter impedance at the crossover point is say, 15 and the amp output is 5, the capacitor (high pass) is now working with a 20 ohm circuit. If that xover point was 5k it would now become closer to 3.5K and the device will have a bit more energy in the upper mids. Thing is, because the slopes are subtle and the BAs wide band, the amplitude difference will only be under about 1.5db max and the reliability isn't compromised.

 

You get much more deviation from a headphone like the TF10 where the tweeter impedance is about 4 ohms. You lose almost 4db in amplitude. Most single BAs have a rising impedance curve (the inductance mentioned earlier) as they increase in frequency. If they are high impedance to begin with (bass range) it's meaningless but if they start out as 8 ohm devices, the entire high frequency range will be a couple db hot and if the DAP is capacitor coupled it will lose a lot of bass at 6db per octave starting at whatever the hinge frequency is. Likely starting around 70hz. There isn't much more to know except the relationship is reversed with inductors. It's how this info is assimilated that becomes the problem. 

 

I don't specifically do this for a living and didn't get out the calculator so please don't get picky.:cool: 

 

James, Thanks for the props but I'm sure it's only because you don't need to know the minutia. Sounds better, is better always worked for me.:bigsmile_face: 

Thanks for this. Now I better understood what Jerry said about the impedance curve and how he managed to narrow it down with the Roxanne.

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