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New JH Audio flagship! "Siren Series Roxanne" - Page 81

post #1201 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG87 View Post



Unequalized, the se535 sound like $20 earbuds compared to my JH16s. I would imagine the Roxanne to be an even wider gap. The se535 can really redeem itself if you boost the lows and the highs, but out of the box there is no comparison at all.



Also,to answer a previous question, a headphone out with the lowest impedance possible will achieve an appropriate frequency response across the spectrum. In general, the higher the output impedance, the more the highs frequencies will be attenuated. It's best to maintain an impedance ratio between output and load of 1:8, which in the case of the Roxanne's, means your output impedance should be under 2 ohms for best performance.

 



ok there has to be some negative effect if the output inpedance is too low right? if not manufactures won't be releasing amps with high and low gain.
post #1202 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by liyzag1 View Post
 

using the se 535 shure , 

 

does one have an idea regarding the difference between the two in reference to sound ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG87 View Post


Unequalized, the se535 sound like $20 earbuds compared to my JH16s. I would imagine the Roxanne to be an even wider gap. The se535 can really redeem itself if you boost the lows and the highs, but out of the box there is no comparison at all.

 

That's basically saying you prefer the JH16's V-shaped sound signature over the SE535's more mid-centric one, and if you EQ the SE535 to make them sound more V-shaped, you like them better.

 

Sound signature preference has little to do with price to performance ratio in my book. By the same logic, those who prefer a more mid-centric sound signature might say the JH16 sound like $20 earbuds.

post #1203 of 8278
The output imp of the driving amp does effect the sound of the IEM. That is a fact however , it does not effect all IEM,S in the same way. I proposed that very question and I rec a multitude of answers , but the answer I wanted was why.

Well the why came from some headfi er I never heard of before , but I must say it did make perfect sense . It is the cross over that is effected in a hi output imp amp. So the the results do vary. In can effect the bass or the highs. But theorist is it does. And a imp of 3 or lower is needed . Now there will be some exceptions to this rule. And I do. Ot know why it does not react the way most amps do, but it does not . So in short get an amp with low output imp and you will be better off in general.

Al D
post #1204 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

The output imp of the driving amp does effect the sound of the IEM. That is a fact however , it does not effect all IEM,S in the same way. I proposed that very question and I rec a multitude of answers , but the answer I wanted was why.

Well the why came from some headfi er I never heard of before , but I must say it did make perfect sense . It is the cross over that is effected in a hi output imp amp.

 

GoldenEars.net have a pretty good article on the subject of impedance matching:

http://en.goldenears.net/1389

 

The explanation regarding crossovers isn't entirely correct. It's the impedance curve (across frequencies) that counts, and even single balanced armature IEMs (without crossovers) tend to have non-linear impedance curves.

 

For example the FitEar F111:

 

 

Bottom line, you need to get your hands on an impedance graph to predict in which way your IEMs will be affected by high output impedance. Of course I agree that a low OI source is generally the safest bet.

post #1205 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

That's basically saying you prefer the JH16's V-shaped sound signature over the SE535's more mid-centric one, and if you EQ the SE535 to make them sound more V-shaped, you like them better.

Sound signature preference has little to do with price to performance ratio in my book. By the same logic, those who prefer a more mid-centric sound signature might say the JH16 sound like $20 earbuds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

That's basically saying you prefer the JH16's V-shaped sound signature over the SE535's more mid-centric one, and if you EQ the SE535 to make them sound more V-shaped, you like them better.

Sound signature preference has little to do with price to performance ratio in my book. By the same logic, those who prefer a more mid-centric sound signature might say the JH16 sound like $20 earbuds.

Then what do you consider metrics for performance?
post #1206 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by eso6686 View Post

ok there has to be some negative effect if the output inpedance is too low right? if not manufactures won't be releasing amps with high and low gain.

 

Anything that is high impedance nowadays is FUD from the old days. In the old days, people designed high impedance headphones for use in parallel in professional environments (like studios) to avoid blowing out the amp. These headphones where generally better than consumer grade headphones and so the myth grew that high impedance headphones were better. With high impedance headphones, damping became an issue. A single driver needs to have the DF (damping factor) under control to sound properly. The DF is calculated by Zload/Zsource, so if the Zload was so high, then the source impedance had to be raised to avoid having a very large DF and basically having no bass response. Basically all this stuff is FUD unless you are talking about a single high-impedance dynamic driver. Today's hi-fi systems have multiple cross-over points (often with entirely separate low-frequency amplification), and sort of the same can be said about multi-BA IEMs. In these systems, where DF has no effect what so ever, the ideal Zsource is zero ohms. The closer to zero, the better.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

That's basically saying you prefer the JH16's V-shaped sound signature over the SE535's more mid-centric one, and if you EQ the SE535 to make them sound more V-shaped, you like them better.

 

Sound signature preference has little to do with price to performance ratio in my book. By the same logic, those who prefer a more mid-centric sound signature might say the JH16 sound like $20 earbuds.

 

Since I don't post very often, I forget that this is head-fi and I should being every post with IMO...

 

In your opinion, JH16s are V-shaped, on the other hand IMO, SE535s are inverse V shaped. You see where I'm going? You cannot objectify this, it is 100% subjective. The only thing you can do is provide an opinion based on your experience, which is what I did. IMO, SE535s sound like single driver bookshelf speakers. JH16s sound like 5-driver 3-way floor standing speakers. I'm not going to try to convince you which one sounds better. It is subjective, so I can only provide my opinion.

post #1207 of 8278

Looking forward to hear the Roxanne this coming weekend during 'The Mook Headphone Festival' ! Jerry will here personally too! 

post #1208 of 8278
jag Great post , and thanks for the facts you have stated. as these iems are not really headphones and as such have cross oers inside and it does have sometimes a profound effect on the sound. again thanks

Al D
post #1209 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Yes UNIQUE MELODY. Is one .i had my tg 334 made custom


Did they keep the original connector pin or change to the standard connector pin?

post #1210 of 8278
i asked them to use the original and sent them the wire. ithey installed a jh audio style recessed socket , and returned my wire back.
post #1211 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

i asked them to use the original and sent them the wire. ithey installed a jh audio style recessed socket , and returned my wire back.

 

Wow, that's bad. Does it change the sound?

post #1212 of 8278
no , not at all . i had silver wires made up for them anyway.
post #1213 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post

Then what do you consider metrics for performance?

 

As I see it, few things can be objectively judged apart from technical aspects like good bandwidth / extension, evenness of frequency response (no major dips and spikes), clean attack / decay transients (no ringing), low distortion.

 

Among those phones that don't exhibit major weaknesses in technical regard, I'd say the subjective perception of better / worse performance is mostly due to personal sound signature preference and expectations. jm2c.

 

To give you an example, I started out on my musical journey as a veritable basshead. Five years ago, something like the JH16 would have been my dream IEMs. Yet over time, my preference has been changing and I've come to favor a leaner and more neutral sound signature. And two years ago, when I finally decided it was time to get my first customs, even the JH13 that I demoed had too much (mid)bass for my taste and I ended up going for the UERM. I would have been decidedly unhappy with something as bassy as the JH16 by then.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue that one specific sound signature is "better" than the others. I'm just saying that preferences vary a lot among different listeners (and even for the same person over time) and that personal ratings and recommendations that are based on these preferences may not be applicable to other people.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG87 View Post
 

In your opinion, JH16s are V-shaped, on the other hand IMO, SE535s are inverse V shaped. You see where I'm going? You cannot objectify this, it is 100% subjective. The only thing you can do is provide an opinion based on your experience, which is what I did. IMO, SE535s sound like single driver bookshelf speakers. JH16s sound like 5-driver 3-way floor standing speakers. I'm not going to try to convince you which one sounds better. It is subjective, so I can only provide my opinion.

 

Inverse V-shaped equals mid-centric, which is how I described the SE535. So we're more or less saying the same thing in that regard.

 

Granted, these are somewhat broad categorizations, but they serve a good purpose because they reflect basic sound signature preferences. Some of the most respected reviewers here use these terms to describe sound signatures and categorize IEMs by. Take a look at ClieOS' awesome IEM comparison, for example. I'd agree that they're not entirely objectifiable, but I'd argue that there's a common understanding of these terms among the more experienced members. By that standard, every measurement I've seen of the JH16 shows them as V-shaped and I'd think not even JHA themselves would dispute that.

 

Like I said above, I'm not claiming superiority of any sound signature over the others. But based on your original post, in which you said that "unequalized, the se535 sound like $20 earbuds compared to my JH16s" and "se535 can really redeem itself if you boost the lows and the highs", I'm concluding that your sound signature preference leans towards V-shaped and the SE535's stock sound simply doesn't meet this preference.

post #1214 of 8278

Anyone heard something new about their Roxanne being shipped:)? They will send them per batch of 40# as far as I understood...

Can't wait for a proper review:)!

post #1215 of 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

As I see it, few things can be objectively judged apart from technical aspects like good bandwidth / extension, evenness of frequency response (no major dips and spikes), clean attack / decay transients (no ringing), low distortion.

 

Among those phones that don't exhibit major weaknesses in technical regard, I'd say the subjective perception of better / worse performance is mostly due to personal sound signature preference and expectations. jm2c.

 

To give you an example, I started out on my musical journey as a veritable basshead. Five years ago, something like the JH16 would have been my dream IEMs. Yet over time, my preference has been changing and I've come to favor a leaner and more neutral sound signature. And two years ago, when I finally decided it was time to get my first customs, even the JH13 that I demoed had too much (mid)bass for my taste and I ended up going for the UERM. I would have been decidedly unhappy with something as bassy as the JH16 by then.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue that one specific sound signature is "better" than the others. I'm just saying that preferences vary a lot among different listeners (and even for the same person over time) and that personal ratings and recommendations that are based on these preferences may not be applicable to other people.

 

 

Inverse V-shaped equals mid-centric, which is how I described the SE535. So we're more or less saying the same thing in that regard.

 

Granted, these are somewhat broad categorizations, but they serve a good purpose because they reflect basic sound signature preferences. Some of the most respected reviewers here use these terms to describe sound signatures and categorize IEMs by. Take a look at ClieOS' awesome IEM comparison, for example. I'd agree that they're not entirely objectifiable, but I'd argue that there's a common understanding of these terms among the more experienced members. By that standard, every measurement I've seen of the JH16 shows them as V-shaped and I'd think not even JHA themselves would dispute that.

 

Like I said above, I'm not claiming superiority of any sound signature over the others. But based on your original post, in which you said that "unequalized, the se535 sound like $20 earbuds compared to my JH16s" and "se535 can really redeem itself if you boost the lows and the highs", I'm concluding that your sound signature preference leans towards V-shaped and the SE535's stock sound simply doesn't meet this preference.

 

 

First of all, I don't consider the sound of the JH16 to be V shaped at all. Their frequency response from 20Hz to 20 KHz is literally a downwards slide. There is no increase in response at high frequencies, if anything it is the opposite (because impedance grows like crazy past 16KHz). So stop referring to them as V shaped, because they are not. The SE535 on the other hand are literally one huge mid-frequency hump. There is hardly any response below 30 Hz and above 16 Khz.

 

Second of all, I agree perfectly with your last paragraph, but please I beg you to keep in mind that in this field there is no black and white, no right or wrong. There is only experience. When I make a statement such as the one I made, it refers only to my preference with regards to my experience. Since my experience is pretty extensive (for my age at least) with both headphones and speakers, I think I can contribute my feelings towards the subject, but by no means is it absolute truth.


Edited by JAG87 - 12/9/13 at 1:20pm
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