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Audeze LCD-X - Page 104

post #1546 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post
 

 

Power = Current * Impedance², too. I don't see how that's relevant to the subject here.

 

Without any knowledge on the gain, you won't go too far with the maths.

 

Also, power is not the real player here. Current delivery is. Unless you listen at crazy loud volume, you'll never go anywhere close to 1W in power need.

The thing is: powerful amps usually have the current capacity that goes with it (obviously, otherwise distortions would be very high), that's the reason why high power amplifier are always recommended. But having a high power output is not a must to get the surge current capacity the headphone needs. Look at the typical Brit amplifiers: there not that powerful in term of pure wattage (advertised); but man do they deliver in terms of current (which makes their very good PRaT performance)!

 

Power dissipation might be a reason why the Bakoon can only deliver 1W continuously. Anyway, there's really no reason for an amp to provide 1W of continuous power into a headphone (unless you want to use it as desktop speakers...).

An amp can well be designed with a 250mW maximum output but with a very beefy power supply that can provide lots of current and won't weaken during surge current. A amp can also be designed to provide 6W of continuous power but with a lesser ability to sustain during current surge (which results in high distortion level).

 

I've found underpowered amps really don't work well with the LCD-3s....and the LCD-X's aren't as particular. Simply delivering current without the ability to swing voltage for complex music can really not help the drivers and the LCD-3s can come off as too laid back. Again, this is based on my first hand experiences and I was mentioning that I wasn't surprised that the more efficient LCD-X worked better with the Bakoon thank the LCD-3s.

post #1547 of 8981
The LCD-X also have a lower impedance, which is good for current output amps (volume control too, in the case of the Bakoon which is said to have a very low volume range on the pot with higher impedance cans).
post #1548 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

If the Bakoon amp is your LCD-3 amp, then I can see why. :o I really recommend 2W into the LCD-3s to really get them going (and the Lyr won't cut it here either). But on the right amp and with the right source, the differences between the LCD-3s and LCD-X are quite a bit smaller to my ears. The LCD-X plays great out of many different amps.

 

LOL, still haven’t heard HPA-21, have you! :D

post #1549 of 8981

I don't mean to generalize, but when it comes to TOTL level headphones, I found a tendency that easier-to-drive headphones generally sound better than harder-to-drive headphones on lesser amps, but when used with TOTL level amps to bring out their full potential, it is usually the harder-to-drive headphones that boast an overall higher scalability and ultimately a superior ceiling performance.

 

For example, the TH900 sounds really good almost out of anything, but probably as a result of this doesn't scale very high with SOTA amps. On the other hand, headphones that are notoriously hard to drive such as HE-6 (for its low efficiency) and HD800 (for its high impedance and bright sonic characteristics) achieve a stunning performance at their peak, given they were properly amped to their best. If poorly amped, however, they could sound worse than their less expensive siblings: HE-500 and HD650, respectively.

 

That being said, I believe the LCD-X will outperform the LCD-3 in many setups, thanks to the former's easy to drive factor, but when both are driven by TOTL amps (such as the finest offerings of ALO, Apex, EAR, Eddie Current, HeadAmp, Luxman, RSA, Luxman, etc.), which one is better overall? Is LCD-X still the better headphone, or will LCD-3 scale higher than the LCD-X in the end?

post #1550 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post
 

 

Power = Current * Impedance², too. I don't see how that's relevant to the subject here.

 

Without any knowledge on the gain, you won't go too far with the maths.

 

Also, power is not the real player here. Current delivery is. Unless you listen at crazy loud volume, you'll never go anywhere close to 1W in power need.

The thing is: powerful amps usually have the current capacity that goes with it (obviously, otherwise distortions would be very high), that's the reason why high power amplifier are always recommended. But having a high power output is not a must to get the surge current capacity the headphone needs. Look at the typical Brit amplifiers: there not that powerful in term of pure wattage (advertised); but man do they deliver in terms of current (which makes their very good PRaT performance)!

 

Power dissipation might be a reason why the Bakoon can only deliver 1W continuously. Anyway, there's really no reason for an amp to provide 1W of continuous power into a headphone (unless you want to use it as desktop speakers...).

An amp can well be designed with a 250mW maximum output but with a very beefy power supply that can provide lots of current and won't weaken during surge current. A amp can also be designed to provide 6W of continuous power but with a lesser ability to sustain during current surge (which results in high distortion level).

 

Thank you for trying! But MH seems to have decided once and for all that HPA-21 is a bad amp for LCD-3, even though it is designed for it. AFAIK he hasn't tried it himself yet, though... :rolleyes:

 

Now I have listened to LCD-X for over five hours and it’s early morning. Time to go to bed!

post #1551 of 8981
Which would make a better pairing for the LCD-X, I'm torn between a Burson Conductor and the Schiit Mjolnir/Gungnir combo. Prices are pretty similar and what I'm looking to spend ($1500-$2000). Anyone have any advice or other recommendations for the X in my price range? Thanks!
post #1552 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanDude View Post
 

 

Thank you for trying! But MH seems to have decided once and for all that HPA-21 is a bad amp for LCD-3, even though it is designed for it. AFAIK he hasn't tried it himself yet, though... :rolleyes:

 

Now I have listened to LCD-X for over five hours and it’s early morning. Time to go to bed!

 

I wouldn't say the HPA-21 is necessarily a bad amp for the LCD-3, but it surely wasn't the ideal amp (especially at that price). In my opinion, headphones like the TH900 or HD800 were much better suited to it, even though the HD800 is a high impedance headphone. For its price, I would recommend something else for the LCD-3.

 

My hunch tells me that the HPA-21 will do better with an LCD-X than an LCD-3...

post #1553 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanDude View Post
 

 

LOL, still haven’t heard HPA-21, have you! :D

Nope...but someone I really trust and has heard it all wasn't a fan. ;) 

post #1554 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanDude View Post
 

 

Thank you for trying! But MH seems to have decided once and for all that HPA-21 is a bad amp for LCD-3, even though it is designed for it. AFAIK he hasn't tried it himself yet, though... :rolleyes:

 

Now I have listened to LCD-X for over five hours and it’s early morning. Time to go to bed!

I didn't say it was a bad amp...just at 1W not ideal for the LCD-3s. I did own the GS-1 and thought it was quite good with the LCD-3s (also 1W), but the extra power from the GS-X MK2 really seems to open them up. That's my entire point. Can I ask you what other top flight amps you've owned/heard in great detail to make such assertions about the Bakoon?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post
 

 

I wouldn't say the HPA-21 is necessarily a bad amp for the LCD-3, but it surely wasn't the ideal amp (especially at that price). In my opinion, headphones like the TH900 or HD800 were much better suited to it, even though the HD800 is a high impedance headphone. For its price, I would recommend something else for the LCD-3.

 

My hunch tells me that the HPA-21 will do better with an LCD-X than an LCD-3...

 

Exactly my point. 

 

FWIW, it's not the lower impedance that makes the LCD-X a better match, it's the higher efficiency.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 11/25/13 at 8:08pm
post #1555 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

I didn't say it was a bad amp...just at 1W not ideal for the LCD-3s. I did own the GS-1 and thought it was quite good with the LCD-3s (also 1W), but the extra power from the GS-X MK2 really seems to open them up. That's my entire point. Can I ask you what other top flight amps you've owned/heard in great detail to make such assertions about the Bakoon?

 

Exactly my point. 

 

FWIW, it's not the lower impedance that makes the LCD-X a better match, it's the higher efficiency.

 

Yep, I know. Higher efficiency.

 

With your GS-X mk2, did you still prefer the LCD-X to the LCD-3?

Also, in terms of synergy, which do you think was better with the GS-X mk2: LCD-X or LCD-3?

post #1556 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post
 

 

Yep, I know. Higher efficiency.

 

With your GS-X mk2, did you still prefer the LCD-X to the LCD-3?

Also, in terms of synergy, which do you think was better with the GS-X mk2: LCD-X or LCD-3?

Primarily my comparisons in my review were done on my main rig (CDP - BDA-2 - GSX MK2). They (LCD-X and LCD-3) both sounded excellent on my desktop rig and I slightly prefer the LCD-X, but can totally understand how some could prefer the LCD-3s (heck sometimes with the right track, so do I). On my portable setup, the LCD-X pulled out ahead quite a bit more. I've since tried them both on a friend's Rega headphone amplifier and same thing as the portable setup, the LCD-X pulled out further ahead. Thus my comments earlier. But with my GS-XMK2, again, the differences were certainly smaller and I'm left to think that the other amps just couldn't get the best out of the LCD-3s.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 11/25/13 at 8:20pm
post #1557 of 8981

my Ultrasone edition 12 preliminary review is in the "Ultrasone Edition 12 Announced in Japan" thread (see the last few entries), in case you guys are interested (see page 19 in that thread)

post #1558 of 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post
 

I don't mean to generalize, but when it comes to TOTL level headphones, I found a tendency that easier-to-drive headphones generally sound better than harder-to-drive headphones on lesser amps, but when used with TOTL level amps to bring out their full potential, it is usually the harder-to-drive headphones that boast an overall higher scalability and ultimately a superior ceiling performance.

 

For example, the TH900 sounds really good almost out of anything, but probably as a result of this doesn't scale very high with SOTA amps. On the other hand, headphones that are notoriously hard to drive such as HE-6 (for its low efficiency) and HD800 (for its high impedance and bright sonic characteristics) achieve a stunning performance at their peak, given they were properly amped to their best. If poorly amped, however, they could sound worse than their less expensive siblings: HE-500 and HD650, respectively.

 

That being said, I believe the LCD-X will outperform the LCD-3 in many setups, thanks to the former's easy to drive factor, but when both are driven by TOTL amps (such as the finest offerings of ALO, Apex, EAR, Eddie Current, HeadAmp, Luxman, RSA, Luxman, etc.), which one is better overall? Is LCD-X still the better headphone, or will LCD-3 scale higher than the LCD-X in the end?

 

What a great post! 100% agreed.

post #1559 of 8981

Another stupid rookie question here. 

 

LCD3 seems to accelerate in Jazz & Rock, i love both genres very much. 

And I'm pretty sure LCD X is good in this department too, but which is the best, are they really that hard to tell apart ? 

post #1560 of 8981

Any electronica fans -- ala Boards of Canada, Arandel, Rone, Autechre -- compared LCD3 to X. I am a detail freak and for that I have HDa800 and He6. But I want a bassier headphone, without sacrificing quality. Can anyone comment? I prefer tight bass where I can easily tell the notes apart, but i don't wonna get something too close to HE6 or HD800. Thought? Experiences? 

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