or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › iFi Audio Nano iDSD discussion + impression
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

iFi Audio Nano iDSD discussion + impression - Page 25

post #361 of 1711

Hi All,

 

You are all invited to the Crowd-Design (not Crowd-Funding) party here:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/ifi-skunkworks-micro-idsd-crowd-design-by-you-for-you/30

 

The top 10 most-valuable contributors to the features of the micro iDSD will receive a brand-spanking new, super-hot micro iDSD. See you there!

 

thank you


Edited by iFi audio - 3/27/14 at 3:39am
post #362 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentagonal View Post

Hi,I am considering purchasing a USB 3.0 cable and am wondering how the iDSD would operate in 2.0 vs 3.0. More specifically, I am wondering if there would be an increase in sound quality in 3.0 from there being more signal bandwidth, better interface, etc. 

Has anyone compared the two?

With thanks, 
Pentagonal

Interestingly I bought USB3.0 cable, and it seems to work better than USB2.0 cable when connected to USB3.0 port in my desktop. Nevertheless USB3.0 cable didn't fix issue on my laptop, i.e. I can't use USB3.0 port on my laptop with iDSD regardless of cable, but iDSD works perfectly on USB2.0 port on that laptop.

So I'd say USB3.0 cable most likely won't fix anything (didn't fix my laptop), but it may sometimes improve things a bit (e.g. my desktop).
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear View Post

The iDSD is a USB 2.0 device.

If it is USB2.0 device, then why it fails to work with USB3.0 ports? For example my mouse, which is USB2.0 device works perfectly with all USB3.0 ports I have around... I suspect there is something USB3.0 in there... Why is USB socket in iDSD a USB3.0 socket? Does it have SS pins unconnected?
post #363 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post

If it is USB2.0 device, then why it fails to work with USB3.0 ports? For example my mouse, which is USB2.0 device works perfectly with all USB3.0 ports I have around... I suspect there is something USB3.0 in there... Why is USB socket in iDSD a USB3.0 socket? Does it have SS pins unconnected?

According to the manufacturer's Tech Specs here: http://ifi-audio.com/en/nano_iDSD.html it is a USB 2.0 device.

The socket does look as though it is USB 3.0 compatible but I suspect it is physical only.

It has been well written about for over a year now that many USB 3.0 implementations on PCs, laptops and particularly Macs don't fully meet the USB 3.0 standard and don't play nice with many DACs.
post #364 of 1711

Time for an update - I've learned lots about this little puppy since I've had it.... One thing people need to be aware of when it comes to all of this laptop as music server business. You really need to be prepared to deal with the usual 'computer' challenges and all the stuff that goes with trying to get hardware/software/peripherals etc to talk to each other and get along. I'm a computer enthusiast going into this whole thing, and it still can be a challenge.

 

With that preface, now to the good stuff, I really do like the sound of this kit. After some months of experimenting with some of the numerous variables available both with using Sox/foobar and JRiver in the software side of things, I think I have come to a conclusion. It took some time to get here, and a lot of familiarity with the sound of the various pieces of the system and how they work, or dont work together.

 

DSD is the winner. -  At first I set it up to play 24/192 PCM because it seemed to sound as good as DSD on first blush. After a time I was hearing some 'chinks' in the armor. Thats usually a good time to make a change that has been in the back of my mind. I was already listening to 24/192 upsampled by Sox with foobar and played native through JRiver. This ended up sounding better than straight redbook through JRiver. Part of the reason is the ability to allow aliasing and add dither, as well as using min phase with Sox. Min phase is also available - switchable - on the iDSD but the effect is minimal IMO (pun intended).

 

So here's the recipe that I am enjoying at this point in time, and real happy with the results: 16/44.1 upsampled to 24/192 min phase, allow aliasing, add dither using SOx with foobar, play this with JRiver with 2x DSD set in the DSP. Its a bit taxing on the old laptop but it works. Nice smooth music, good prat, definition, lack of hash or grain. - all good. cheers -

post #365 of 1711
That is great news earwaxxer, been playing around the Microstreamer for about two weeks now and it is good. However, the iDSD seems to offer much more for the same price range....and from your impressions the performance seems to be better! Time to send the microstreamer back I suppose ;).
post #366 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by earwaxxer View Post
DSD is the winner. -  At first I set it up to play 24/192 PCM because it seemed to sound as good as DSD on first blush. After a time I was hearing some 'chinks' in the armor. Thats usually a good time to make a change that has been in the back of my mind. I was already listening to 24/192 upsampled by Sox with foobar and played native through JRiver. This ended up sounding better than straight redbook through JRiver. Part of the reason is the ability to allow aliasing and add dither, as well as using min phase with Sox. Min phase is also available - switchable - on the iDSD but the effect is minimal IMO (pun intended).

 

So here's the recipe that I am enjoying at this point in time, and real happy with the results: 16/44.1 upsampled to 24/192 min phase, allow aliasing, add dither using SOx with foobar, play this with JRiver with 2x DSD set in the DSP. Its a bit taxing on the old laptop but it works. Nice smooth music, good prat, definition, lack of hash or grain. - all good. cheers -

I never used foobar so did you used a modified SOx plugin and what version level were you using?

post #367 of 1711
Yesterday, I just tried iDSD with Moto G and it didn't work. Again Pan Am did work (plug-and-play), and iDSD didn't. Moto G has Jelly Bean. It can be upgraded to KitKat, but I doubt it would solve the issue. I suspect that the only portable device that iDSD is working with is iPhone 5, and even that I am not sure of.

I've got a question to iFi: Did you test iDSD with any Android devices?
Edited by koolas - 3/31/14 at 4:02pm
post #368 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by john57 View Post
 

I never used foobar so did you used a modified SOx plugin and what version level were you using?

Hey John - you can get the SoX plugin here:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=67373

If you are familiar with foobar, you just drop the dll in the components folder and then select it in foobar. SoX is a good free SRC. If you want to familiarize with SRC specs etc this is a good site.

http://src.infinitewave.ca/

 

I like SoX because it has very little aliasing (black background on the scope). The other alternative is to pay $1600 for Weiss Saracon.

post #369 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post

Yesterday, I just tried iDSD with Moto G and it didn't work. Again Pan Am did work (plug-and-play), and iDSD didn't. Moto G has Jelly Bean. It can be upgraded to KitKat, but I doubt it would solve the issue. I suspect that the only portable device that iDSD is working with is iPhone 5, and even that I am not sure of.

I've got a question to iFi: Did you test iDSD with any Android devices?

Hi,

 

All AMR/iFi products are all USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant.

 

OS X already is, Windows needs the driver.

 

As for Android because it is open-source, it is unfortunately a machine-by-machine basis.

 

Software-wise, the particular Android device must be:

 

1. USB Host mode MUST be supported and

2. USB Audio Class Compliant

 

Further:

3. for High-Resolution playback, it needs extra software.

 

 

A good test of whether or not your Android device is compatible or not is to install the trial version of USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP).

http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/

(this also has an ever growing list of compatible and non-compatible devices-it shows each particular model)

 

 

If UAPP works, you are good to go. 

 

UAPP works often even if the Device itself does not support USB Audio Class. So, to plug in iDSD and to get audio you need:

i. Host mode

ii. OTG adapter and

iii. USB Audio Class support.

 

If no USB Audio Class support or if HD needed - use UAPP.

 

We have a pdf Android instruction sheet which neatly summarises all this. Just email: tech@ifi-audio.com and we'll send you a copy.

post #370 of 1711

Here is a very nice and complimentary review of the nano iDSD. We hope you like it.

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audio-creative.nl%2Fhifi%2Fifi-nano-idsd%2F

 

He also measured the nano iDSD with his Audio Precision 2 which is the exact same machine we have here at base.

 

Triode Dick aka Dick van de Merwe - has been reviewing for quite some years.

 

The Metrum Hex which was the nano iDSD was compared against is Euro2.850.


Edited by iFi audio - 4/1/14 at 6:44am
post #371 of 1711

Question for iFi people.

 

Is there any indication when the new firmware release will be readily available, or at least on beta level? Trouble is ... I have iDSD on 7 days trial and it's absolutely unusable when paired with motherboards/systems with the latest USB3 chipsets (Intel xHCI namely).  I have new Z87 chipset motheboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) and MacBook Air from the late 2013. In both cases, outcome is that iDSD starts to stream nicely and then just dies after completely random time interval. Only way to recover iDSD is to unplug and plug again. For the PC, only "solution" is that I disable USB3 support in bios (so that USB3 ports are running in USB2 mode) and in that case iDSD seems stable. For the MacBook Air (as originally planned as iDSD portable HiFi set-up) I just don't how is there any remedy available.

 

I'm really surprised that unit was slipped in production with such major flaw. Intel xHCI is not some esoteric USB3 chipset and it's pretty much mainstream these days, so it's just baffling how come that more in-depth testing was not done.

 

As I can't extend my 7 days trial (bought it online and e-tailer is offering 7 days return) not sure what to do ... as one may classify this as faulty product, indeed, unless there is firm assurance that fix is on the horizon.

post #372 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito73 View Post
 

Question for iFi people.

 

Is there any indication when the new firmware release will be readily available, or at least on beta level? Trouble is ... I have iDSD on 7 days trial and it's absolutely unusable when paired with motherboards/systems with the latest USB3 chipsets (Intel xHCI namely).  I have new Z87 chipset motheboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) and MacBook Air from the late 2013. In both cases, outcome is that iDSD starts to stream nicely and then just dies after completely random time interval. Only way to recover iDSD is to unplug and plug again. For the PC, only "solution" is that I disable USB3 support in bios (so that USB3 ports are running in USB2 mode) and in that case iDSD seems stable. For the MacBook Air (as originally planned as iDSD portable HiFi set-up) I just don't how is there any remedy available.

 

I'm really surprised that unit was slipped in production with such major flaw. Intel xHCI is not some esoteric USB3 chipset and it's pretty much mainstream these days, so it's just baffling how come that more in-depth testing was not done.

 

As I can't extend my 7 days trial (bought it online and e-tailer is offering 7 days return) not sure what to do ... as one may classify this as faulty product, indeed, unless there is firm assurance that fix is on the horizon.

I thought that I may chip in here possibility with some ideas. Have you tried using the ASRock Z87 Extreme USB 2.0 only ports on the motherboard? The two USB 2.0 only ports are just above the PS/2 port.

 

As far as Intel Chipset for the USB3 goes they did have problems with a early version that was being used on the same motherboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) you are currently using. You can check on your chipset version as shown on this web page C1 or C2

 

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4444/3/33-haswell-motherboard-group-test-26x-z87-4x-h87-and-3x-b85-the-usb-issue-definitely-there

post #373 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito73 View Post
 

Question for iFi people.

 

Is there any indication when the new firmware release will be readily available, or at least on beta level? Trouble is ... I have iDSD on 7 days trial and it's absolutely unusable when paired with motherboards/systems with the latest USB3 chipsets (Intel xHCI namely).  I have new Z87 chipset motheboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) and MacBook Air from the late 2013. In both cases, outcome is that iDSD starts to stream nicely and then just dies after completely random time interval. Only way to recover iDSD is to unplug and plug again. For the PC, only "solution" is that I disable USB3 support in bios (so that USB3 ports are running in USB2 mode) and in that case iDSD seems stable. For the MacBook Air (as originally planned as iDSD portable HiFi set-up) I just don't how is there any remedy available.

 

I'm really surprised that unit was slipped in production with such major flaw. Intel xHCI is not some esoteric USB3 chipset and it's pretty much mainstream these days, so it's just baffling how come that more in-depth testing was not done.

 

As I can't extend my 7 days trial (bought it online and e-tailer is offering 7 days return) not sure what to do ... as one may classify this as faulty product, indeed, unless there is firm assurance that fix is on the horizon.

 

Hi,

 

You are correct. the Intel xHCI does not work with USB AC 2.0.  This is the root cause and has affected those new products with this USB 3.0 chipset. We are working on the code and have been doing this round the clock. If you PM us with the retailer details we are more than happy for them to extend the period.

 

We will have the solution but this has not only effected DACs out there but also peripherals such as HDDs and thumb drives.

 

iFi is in the same boat as the others.

 

As an interim work around, you can go into the BIOS and reset the port back to USB2.0.

 

thanks

post #374 of 1711

Quote:

Originally Posted by john57 View Post
 

I thought that I may chip in here possibility with some ideas. Have you tried using the ASRock Z87 Extreme USB 2.0 only ports on the motherboard? The two USB 2.0 only ports are just above the PS/2 port.

 

As far as Intel Chipset for the USB3 goes they did have problems with a early version that was being used on the same motherboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) you are currently using. You can check on your chipset version as shown on this web page C1 or C2

 

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4444/3/33-haswell-motherboard-group-test-26x-z87-4x-h87-and-3x-b85-the-usb-issue-definitely-there

 

Hey, thanks for this! Much appreciated.

 

Yes, I did try iDSD in two (only avaliable)  USB 2.0 ports and no dice again (exactly the same problem)  and that was the moment when it did cross my mind that I got the lemon  ... unitl I tried to disable USB3 support in Z87 Extreme bios. I vaguely remember that motherboard did have some sticker "new revision" or something, have to check when I get back home. Anyhow, that bug was related to the way how devices are initialised when resumed back from suspended state and iDSD manifestation is completely different.

 

Ipad2 (iOS) and HTC One (Android KitKat) were fine ... although couldn't use iDSD outside of the USB Audio Player realm. I would really appreciate any input if it's possible to use iDSD natively on Android platform (so that I can use different players, streaming, online music etc).

 

MacBook Air is not compatible, as it seems.

post #375 of 1711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito73 View Post
 

Quote:

 

MacBook Air is not compatible, as it seems.

 

 

See below. Tested by a customer who went to an Apple store and spent the whole afternoon there!

 

MacBook Pro w/ Retina Mavericks 10.9.2 USB3.0 port issue
     
iMac Mavericks 10.9.2 USB3.0 port issue
     
MacBook Air Mavericks 10.9.2 USB3.0 port issue
     
MacBook Pro w/o Retina Mavericks 10.9.2 Works
     
Mac Mini Mavericks 10.9.2 Works
     
Mac Pro Mavericks 10.9.2 Works
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › iFi Audio Nano iDSD discussion + impression