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Mr. Speakers Mad Dog 3.0 - 3.2 Amp Pairing Recommendation/Discussion Thread - Page 2

post #16 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hojomojo96 View Post

I've read that the Aune T1 does a good job with the Mad Dogs, and it's a tube DAC with an ss amp. Personally I like a warm and smooth sound so in the next couple weeks I'll be picking up a T1 to use as a DAC, Project Ember as an amp, and of course, a shiny new pair of Mad Dogs

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the T1 - I can actually get those here, and at a decent price.

post #17 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreak054 View Post
 

Just as a recommendation maybe start a list of amps and maybe their general opinions next to them in the original post. If you are willing to keep up with it. It could become a lot of work.

 

I think this is an excellent idea to keep up updating the first post of this thread!

You will have work to do now doublea71!!!

 

;-)

post #18 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post
 

 

I think this is an excellent idea to keep up updating the first post of this thread!

You will have work to do now doublea71!!!

 

;-)

I think that's a good idea and not a hassle at all - thanks.

post #19 of 385
Thread Starter 

Has anybody tried the Audio-GD NFB 11.32? (Talk about a name that could be shorter, eh?) It has a Sabre DAC chip which may pair well with the Mad Dog...just speculation for now.

post #20 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post
 

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the T1 - I can actually get those here, and at a decent price.

 

I'll post here as soon as I get it, but I won't be purchasing for a couple weeks probably. Same goes for Project Ember.

post #21 of 385

I'm using the Mad Dogs with my Audio Gd 15.32, I know its a bit warmer but still sounds great (hours of listening with zero fatigue), especially for the price I think they are a bit over $200 and for that you get a amp and DAC and oodles of power.

 

For portability I use the PB2 is brighter than the Audio Gd but is really a good match with the Mad Dogs

post #22 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post
 

Has anybody tried the Audio-GD NFB 11.32? (Talk about a name that could be shorter, eh?) It has a Sabre DAC chip which may pair well with the Mad Dog...just speculation for now.

Two points:

 

1 - The DAC chip doesn't tell you much about the sound quality of any DAC over $50.  It is the implementation of the chip that is important.  (I don't want to bore anyone with links to several pages of medium-technical articles that explain why.)

 

2 - A DAC should pair well with everything.  A DAC should be chosen because of its resolution, dynamics, and lack of distortions and smearing.  Since it is at the source end, it should be flat in its frequency response.

 

It is reasonable to pair amps with speakers and headphones, because one drives the other (this is why "powered speakers" can be surprisingly good, because the manufacturer has done this already for you).

 

But everything before the amp should be chosen for its transparency, the fact that you never notice it...


Edited by kstuart - 9/26/13 at 3:48pm
post #23 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post
 

Two points:

 

1 - The DAC chip doesn't tell you much about the sound quality of any DAC over $50.  It is the implementation of the chip that is important.  (I don't want to bore anyone with links to several pages of medium-technical articles that explain why.)

 

2 - A DAC should pair well with everything.  A DAC should be chosen because of its resolution, dynamics, and lack of distortions and smearing.  Since it is at the source end, it should be flat in its frequency response.

 

It is reasonable to pair amps with speakers and headphones, because one drives the other (this is why "powered speakers" can be surprisingly good, because the manufacturer has done this already for you).

 

But everything before the amp should be chosen for its transparency, the fact that you never notice it...

 

I just want to say, a DAC is whatever the individual wants it to be. Just because one person (kstuart for example) believes a DAC should be "transparent" doesn't mean everyone wants that. I also, want to add that IMO, nothing is completely transparent (without color - a sound of its own). I've had plenty of DACs and amps to know better than to put a blanket statement like that over the entire market. Second thing I want to bring up is that a DAC chip's implementation is the most significant portion of the overall sound, but each DAC chip has a sonic signature of its own. You will never be able to make a WM chip sound like a Sabre, and vis versa. They all have qualities that are either appealing or not. I do agree implementation is key and a particular DAC should not be judged solely on its chip. 

 

Pairing your amp with both speakers and headphones is somewhat tricky but is becoming more popular, especially on these forums. It isn't a new concept and one that should be considered, especially if you are on a budget. Vintage or new speaker amps can/will play nice with orthodynamic headphones. It gets a little trickier when you introduce dynamic drivers with that kind of power, but that is for another thread. 

 

YMMV

post #24 of 385

I never said that anything is "completely transparent".   But you want it as transparent as possible.

 

For example, if you want to see the outside, you need to clean your windows entirely.  then you want the glass to be as transparent as possible.  Of course, if you open the window, you will see the things outside more clearly than any window, but that does not mean you don't want the window to be as transparent as possible.

 

Sure, some people like black-out windows, and that's fine, but that preference is not about quality.

post #25 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post
 

I never said that anything is "completely transparent".   But you want it as transparent as possible.

 

For example, if you want to see the outside, you need to clean your windows entirely.  then you want the glass to be as transparent as possible.  Of course, if you open the window, you will see the things outside more clearly than any window, but that does not mean you don't want the window to be as transparent as possible.

 

Sure, some people like black-out windows, and that's fine, but that preference is not about quality.

 

You missed the point entirely. My point is, you stated a subjective opinion, one that you will find will never be technically obtainable. I agree a DAC should be as transparent as possible while maintaining a natural and musical sound, but again that is my opinion. Others want some color or something different from their DAC. Their isn't one cookie cutter way to chose DACs. Same could be said for every portion of the audio chain.


Edited by Greed - 9/27/13 at 10:56am
post #26 of 385

Here is a good review comparing the sound of two different DAC modules, based on two different DAC chips, each used in the same Burson product.  (Note that Burson's implementation of the PCM1793 will sound yet different to the HRT implementation, and you can also find a review of the latter on the same web site):

 

http://www.headfonia.com/burson-conductor-ess9018-vs-pcm1793/

post #27 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post
 

I never said that anything is "completely transparent".   But you want it as transparent as possible.

 

For example, if you want to see the outside, you need to clean your windows entirely.  then you want the glass to be as transparent as possible.  Of course, if you open the window, you will see the things outside more clearly than any window, but that does not mean you don't want the window to be as transparent as possible.

 

Sure, some people like black-out windows, and that's fine, but that preference is not about quality.

 

You missed the point entirely. My point is, you stated a subjective opinion, one that you will find will never be technically obtainable. I agree a DAC should be as transparent as possible while maintaining a natural and musical sound, but again that is my opinion. Others want some color or something different from their DAC. Their isn't one cookie cutter way to chose DACs. Same could be said for every portion of the audio chain.

No, I think you are missing my point. :D

 

The example of the black-out windows, makes the point that we are all free to buy whatever we want.

 

But if the discussion is about sound quality, meaning better sound quality as opposed to worse sound quality, then the early components in the sound chain need to add as little to the sound as possible (to change the sound as little as possible).   Because once you add something to the sound, it is then there throughout the rest of the chain.

 

If the early parts of the sound chain have as little color as possible, then you will hear (to the extent possible) only the difference between the Mad Dogs and the HE-400 and the HD-650, instead of hearing DAC+MadDog vs DAC+HE400 vs DAC+HD650.

 

There is a phrase "looking at the world through rose colored glasses" which makes the point that once you apply a coloring in that way, it then applies to everything:

 

post #28 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post
 

No, I think you are missing my point. :D

 

The example of the black-out windows, makes the point that we are all free to buy whatever we want.

 

But if the discussion is about sound quality, meaning better sound quality as opposed to worse sound quality, then the early components in the sound chain need to add as little to the sound as possible (to change the sound as little as possible).   Because once you add something to the sound, it is then there throughout the rest of the chain.

 

If the early parts of the sound chain have as little color as possible, then you will hear (to the extent possible) only the difference between the Mad Dogs and the HE-400 and the HD-650, instead of hearing DAC+MadDog vs DAC+HE400 vs DAC+HD650.

 

There is a phrase "looking at the world through rose colored glasses" which makes the point that once you apply a coloring in that way, it then applies to everything:

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

These are all subjective terms that can be heard and interpreted vastly different ways from person to person. That is my point. Throwing a blanket statement like that as truth is invalid. 


Edited by Greed - 9/27/13 at 11:21am
post #29 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post
 

Here is a good review comparing the sound of two different DAC modules, based on two different DAC chips, each used in the same Burson product.  (Note that Burson's implementation of the PCM1793 will sound yet different to the HRT implementation, and you can also find a review of the latter on the same web site):

 

http://www.headfonia.com/burson-conductor-ess9018-vs-pcm1793/

 

Not sure where you are going with this, I've already mentioned implementation is key and I'm in agreeance with you. But DAC chips do have unique sonic characteristics. 

post #30 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post
These are all subjective terms that can be heard and interpreted vastly different ways from person to person. That is my point. Throwing a blanket statement like that as truth is invalid. 

Music is inherently subjective - you have to learn to recognize what the artist is doing, based on other music you have heard, and other life experiences.

 

Audio is inherently subjective - every pair of ears is different, so two people can be in the same room (and even sit in the same spot for two playbacks), and actually hear different things.

 

Everything that a person might describe as "truth" is simply what they themselves have decided.  A necessary part of life, of course, otherwise we would never do anything.

 

What anyone says is simply their statement, it can only be "truth" in the mind of someone who reads it.

 

Nothing about that is different between any two posts on head-fi (or anywhere else).

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