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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 63

post #931 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post


Hi Gintaras, you've been around the DAP block a few times just like I've been. My point is if a manufacturer is going to charge big money for a DAP then it should perform well in the user experience as well as the sonics. You know just as well as me there's been a trend over the last few years to release DAPs with buggy UI's. My point with this thread is to say if these companies are going to release pricey DAPs then they should take the time to at least release these products with an acceptable user experience. I'm not asking for an iPod like user experience I'm simply asking for a passable user experience, nothing more. For example, if a company lists that the DAP has playlist capabilities then in my mind the player should be able to do playlists without any hassles. Not have a playlist option that doesn't work no matter what the user tries.

By the way, cute avatar where did you get it?

no disagreement about this, but actually i see it in positive way because increasing number of audiophile DAP makers will help to bring better products to the market.

yes, some things about audiophile DAPs are striking, but this is small niche market still developing. lets not forget that digital playback made progress only recently and portable started from iPods...
post #932 of 1306

I disagree, DigitalFreak, with the prices being charged, you as the consumer spending an inordinate amount of money should absolutely expect a flawless UI. Microsoft perfected it with the Zune interface what...7 years ago?

post #933 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach-X View Post

I disagree, DigitalFreak, with the prices being charged, you as the consumer spending an inordinate amount of money should absolutely expect a flawless UI. Microsoft perfected it with the Zune interface what...7 years ago?

really? i never saw Microsoft perfecting anything other than OS crashing down ... but perhaps i am out of touch here tongue.gif
post #934 of 1306

iPod came out more than decade ago with better UI than some of the so called Audiophile DAPs today, it's kinda ridiculous when you think about it.

post #935 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post
 

No idea, I just remember reading posts from people saying it wasn't worth buying because from the listed specs they read it probably couldn't drive demanding headphones. I was surprised when I hooked up my AD, Paradox and high impedance AKG that the AK could drive them all so well. It even drives my Q701 better then my ALO RX MKIII amp. The ALO amp has plenty of power to drive my Q can but it just isn't a very good pairing with my Q701, no synergy whatsoever.

 

Interesting! As far as DAPs, I can tell you that my Shure SRH840 are supposedly easy to drive, yet they sounded terribly fatiguing with the Clip+. It was a similar situation with the X5: There was no fatigue involved, but the X5 and SRH840 seemed a poor match. (Still, I suspect the fault had more to do with the DAP itself.)

 

It appears there's more to the process of driving headphones than proper amping alone.

post #936 of 1306

 

 

Okay, it's only been one day. I'm still trying to find the sound shaping functions on the HiFiMAN HM-802 (bass, treble, something). Where are these controls?

 

The 802 froze up on me a few times, but again, it's early and I may not have given it time to do what it does. Whatever that is.

 

The HM-802 and Shure SE846 sounded okay (better than with the FiiO X3 in my opinion).  I don't have the IEM amp card. So far (without EQ), the HM-802 does not separate itself much (sound wise) from the iPod Touch 5G. The 802 has a better balance and slightly better tonality (to me) than the iPod.

 

Then I plugged the 846 back into my old Galaxy S2 (with V4A) and the deep rolling thunder sub-bass returned. This was completely missing from both the 802 and iPod. Everything else was also quite noticeably better.

 

The HM-802 is likely designed for a different kind of music lover than myself. I'm sure it shines with balanced mode playing hires classical tracks. I'm going to try any number of combinations with it to see what I can get it to do.

post #937 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

really? i never saw Microsoft perfecting anything other than OS crashing down ... but perhaps i am out of touch here tongue.gif
If you've ever used a zune, you would know what I am talking about. The UI is beautiful and flawless. One touch shuffle of all your music. Easy navigation of artist>album>tracks, everything organized perfectly. Tap an artist it plays all their albums latest to oldest. If you are in all music shuffle and you decide "hey I wanna hear that album" you tap the album and it automatically deshuffles and just plays the album. The zune music interface is so intuitive its not funny. Its much simpler than the iPod interface but way more intuitive, it just knows what you might decide to do next. I encourage anyone who loves a pure music ui to just try a zune once, THIS is the standard these boutique cap makers should be living up to...
post #938 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarr112281 View Post

Interesting! As far as DAPs, I can tell you that my Shure SRH840 are supposedly easy to drive, yet they sounded terribly fatiguing with the Clip+. It was a similar situation with the X5: There was no fatigue involved, but the X5 and SRH840 seemed a poor match. (Still, I suspect the fault had more to do with the DAP itself.)

It appears there's more to the process of driving headphones than proper amping alone.
I found that with my clip as well. I think it has to do with the ridiculously low output impedance of the clip+. Install rock box, set your eq how you like, and then set the precut -a few decibals, and you will find it warms up quite a bit, and still has enough grunt to give decent volume. I personally set the low pass shelf at 50hz, gave that a 24db boost, then set precut at -15db, it sounds awesome. With 32 ohm cans you will still get adequate volume, but some amping will be needed to truly rock and you will find the clip makes a helluva source.
post #939 of 1306

I had a couple of UI freeze-ups on day one with the HiFiMAN HM-802, but I really can't get mad at the developer. It has to be hard to match the big boys (in UI ease of use) when your expertise is in audio hardware. I was mad at Microsoft (10 years ago) because they were a big company with a huge brain-trust of experts in many areas of software development and yet Windows Mobile was a nightmare. Oh what a nightmare it was. Zune was a major improvement that carries on in Microsoft Phone Editions of today.

 

What I don't understand about these small boutique DAP makers is why they don't simply use Android? I thought it was a free and (at least a semi-) open software platform? Perhaps iBasso learned that using Android was a difficult undertaking when trying to be the first to write code for hi-res playback. But now that Google's Music Player, Poweramp, (and probably others) are catching on to hi-res playback, what is the problem now with just using Android? I guess AK and Sony will force the others to use Android.

 

Oh well, I'm moving on. My earphones are efficient enough that I can just use a cellphone....

post #940 of 1306
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckdriver View Post
 

I had a couple of UI freeze-ups on day one with the HiFiMAN HM-802, but I really can't get mad at the developer. It has to be hard to match the big boys (in UI ease of use) when your expertise is in audio hardware. I was mad at Microsoft (10 years ago) because they were a big company with a huge brain-trust of experts in many areas of software development and yet Windows Mobile was a nightmare. Oh what a nightmare it was. Zune was a major improvement that carries on in Microsoft Phone Editions of today.

 

What I don't understand about these small boutique DAP makers is why they don't simply use Android? I thought it was a free and (at least a semi-) open software platform? Perhaps iBasso learned that using Android was a difficult undertaking when trying to be the first to write code for hi-res playback. But now that Google's Music Player, Poweramp, (and probably others) are catching on to hi-res playback, what is the problem now with just using Android? I guess AK and Sony will force the others to use Android.

 

Oh well, I'm moving on. My earphones are efficient enough that I can just use a cellphone....


I've kind of wondered about that myself. Not to say using Android wouldn't require answering its own set of problems. But at least some of the base code required in an OS would already be done for them. I don't know, maybe I'm just that ignorant about Android. Any Android devs on thread who could maybe pitch in a little more info on Android coding for MP3 players and why it isn't more widespread in the industry?

post #941 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post
 


I've kind of wondered about that myself. Not to say using Android wouldn't require answering its own set of problems. But at least some of the base code required in an OS would already be done for them. I don't know, maybe I'm just that ignorant about Android. Any Android devs on thread who could maybe pitch in a little more info on Android coding for MP3 players and why it isn't more widespread in the industry?

 

I don't understand any of it myself, DigitalFreak. If I had to guess, I'd say the reason why some of the makers of "audiophile DAPs" don't want to open things up is because they won't have any rights from being copied. They perhaps want proprietary API and software player coding because they don't own any of the hardware. They just assembly existing components. But, I don't have a clue. I just think it is close to over which is why we are seeing yet more format hype.

post #942 of 1306

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach-X View Post

Install rock box, set your eq how you like, and then set the precut -a few decibals, and you will find it warms up quite a bit, and still has enough grunt to give decent volume. I personally set the low pass shelf at 50hz, gave that a 24db boost, then set precut at -15db, it sounds awesome. With 32 ohm cans you will still get adequate volume, but some amping will be needed to truly rock and you will find the clip makes a helluva source.

 

Thanks for the advice--I wish I'd seen it a year ago. Yes, I was already using Rockbox to correct the Clip+'s playback problems. I don't have one now; my unit's battery failed after I left it charging too long. I'm thinking about the Clip Zip, but I'd much prefer a device with better fidelity and functionality. The Calyx M seems interesting, although at my income level it's a thoroughly exorbitant option!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckdriver View Post

 

Oh well, I'm moving on. My earphones are efficient enough that I can just use a cellphone...

 

Woah--from an HM-802 to a mobile phone! LOL It says a great deal about the reality of most "audiophile" DAPs.

 

Regards,

Brian

post #943 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarr112281 View Post

 

Woah--from an HM-802 to a mobile phone! LOL It says a great deal about the reality of most "audiophile" DAPs.

 

Regards,

Brian

 

The HM-802 got warm and froze-up yet again (for the third time), but I tell you,  it sounds good with my Q701. I think it sound better than the FiiO X3 did with my Q701. The cellphone doesn't have enough power to do anything with the Q701 (so there a phone can't compete with the 802).

 

But yeah, with a very efficient 9 ohm IEM (like the SE846), a cellphone with Viper4Android (which is like putting your phone on steroids) is good. The HM-802 has a nice balanced sound, but I don't see a way to adjust it. On my phone there seems to be (literally) a hundred ways to tweak the sound. Like, for example, I added 8db at 40Hz and man it is nice.

 

Comparing my iPod Touch 5G to my cellphone is like comparing an old CRT to an HDTV. The 802 has similar clarity just no adjustment and a buggy UI doesn't help matters.

post #944 of 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckdriver View Post
 

Comparing my iPod Touch 5G to my cellphone is like comparing an old CRT to an HDTV.

 

Really, the iPod Touch is so outdated? I thought "5G" was the latest model. :confused_face(1): May I ask which phone you're using?

post #945 of 1306
I don't get it. Which one is the CRT and which one is the HDTV? Why is one of them so much better or worse than the other? The latest iPod Touch is the 7th generation, but all of the Touches sound awesome and are easy to use. You can use different apps on the Touch or the cell phone to get the UI you want.
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