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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 7

post #91 of 1453
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

where is the link to th rant video?

Look on the first page in the first post
post #92 of 1453

DF, I made similar comments in the HM901 thread after reading complaints about the UI and other issues that made it sound like HiFiMan were back to business as usual, and received the following somewhat arrogant responses:

 

1. Go and buy one then you can complain about the firmware

 

2. HiFiMan will eventually fix the firmware and then this DAP will be perfect !

 

Very reminiscent of the 'groupthink' denial around the Rega Apollo CDP when folk began reporting issues on the forums - it's now widely accepted that Rega managed to get brilliant sound from a device that had a mind of it's own when it came to actually playing CDs. No matter how brilliant the sound is, I dont believe it's an excuse for marketing something that simply doesn't work per the manual. 

post #93 of 1453

Dear Freak

You ever asked urself why did u wanna change from idevice to something like ibasso or hisound?????becoz u want improve "audio" quality, right?or is it ui quality(lol)?

Now back to apple...............what is the company all about? an audio company?

ibasso and hisound ????what are those companies????audio?or software developer?or hardware designer?u ever call a pet-control to fix ur home electric problem even if they claim that they can do it?????who being smart here???? 


they failed in creating a good ui becoz they r not a freaking software-master,and they dont point a gun to ur head asking u to use thier products,if u dont like it,dont use it.

wake up,real Freak 
 

post #94 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfever View Post
 

Dear Freak

You ever asked urself why did u wanna change from idevice to something like ibasso or hisound?????becoz u want improve "audio" quality, right?or is it ui quality(lol)?

Now back to apple...............what is the company all about? an audio company?

ibasso and hisound ????what are those companies????audio?or software developer?or hardware designer?u ever call a pet-control to fix ur home electric problem even if they claim that they can do it?????who being smart here???? 


they failed in creating a good ui becoz they r not a freaking software-master,and they dont point a gun to ur head asking u to use thier products,if u dont like it,dont use it.

wake up,real Freak 
 

 

Way to completely miss the point of the thread, and this reads like a flame with absolutely nothing constructive to offer. 

post #95 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

DF, I made similar comments in the HM901 thread after reading complaints about the UI and other issues that made it sound like HiFiMan were back to business as usual, and received the following somewhat arrogant responses:

 

1. Go and buy one then you can complain about the firmware

 

2. HiFiMan will eventually fix the firmware and then this DAP will be perfect !

 

Very reminiscent of the 'groupthink' denial around the Rega Apollo CDP when folk began reporting issues on the forums - it's now widely accepted that Rega managed to get brilliant sound from a device that had a mind of it's own when it came to actually playing CDs. No matter how brilliant the sound is, I dont believe it's an excuse for marketing something that simply doesn't work per the manual. 

 

I have to agree with you basically we as the consumers are enabling this behavior by purchasing from them and that definitely does not help the situation. Basically if they can't sell **** well they'll be forced to stop making **** if you take my meaning :P.

post #96 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfever View Post
 

and they dont point a gun to ur head asking u to use thier products,if u dont like it,dont use it.

 

 

+1.  It's your money, and if you buy something and feel screwed - you are the only one to be blamed, nobody else.

 

With that said, my sympathy goes to Freak for being screwed (twice recently) and you really don't deserve it. Please keep the faith (and buying too) and hopefully you will land on a operation endgame dap soon.


Edited by DMinor - 9/25/13 at 4:16pm
post #97 of 1453
If ibasso firstly sold the dx50 20 dollars cheaper than the normal price to the first and second batch customers and inform ahead that the firmware is at beta status... it would have shut people up for complaining...

Anyway, the device is now almost working according to specs... People who wait and order now are probably smarter... LoL (first batch customer here)
post #98 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfever View Post
 

Dear Freak

You ever asked urself why did u wanna change from idevice to something like ibasso or hisound?????becoz u want improve "audio" quality, right?or is it ui quality(lol)?

Now back to apple...............what is the company all about? an audio company?

ibasso and hisound ????what are those companies????audio?or software developer?or hardware designer?u ever call a pet-control to fix ur home electric problem even if they claim that they can do it?????who being smart here???? 


they failed in creating a good ui becoz they r not a freaking software-master,and they dont point a gun to ur head asking u to use thier products,if u dont like it,dont use it.

wake up,real Freak 
 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

 

Way to completely miss the point of the thread, and this reads like a flame with absolutely nothing constructive to offer. 

 

+1. A little more attention to grammar might be useful as well.

post #99 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post

If ibasso firstly sold the dx50 20 dollars cheaper than the normal price to the first and second batch customers and inform ahead that the firmware is at beta status... it would have shut people up for complaining...

Anyway, the device is now almost working according to specs... People who wait and order now are probably smarter... LoL (first batch customer here)

That seems like a reasonable way to roll out a product that isn't quite market ready. However, in absence of transparency, there is an obvious catch-22: Without feedback from early adopters, will they even notice or care about the bugs that are found?

 

Signed,

 

Considering Batch 10

post #100 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post
 

That seems like a reasonable way to roll out a product that isn't quite market ready. However, in absence of transparency, there is an obvious catch-22: Without feedback from early adopters, will they even notice or care about the bugs that are found?

 

Signed,

 

Considering Batch 10

Gotta love it. "Almost working to spec":D

 

If they'd bothered to roll out some to experienced users to beta test in the first place you would not have to use the retail consumer as the "test pilot" How about we all bill em $20 an hour for the time it took to workaround this crap?

post #101 of 1453
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfever View Post
 

Dear Freak

You ever asked urself why did u wanna change from idevice to something like ibasso or hisound?????becoz u want improve "audio" quality, right?or is it ui quality(lol)?

Now back to apple...............what is the company all about? an audio company?

ibasso and hisound ????what are those companies????audio?or software developer?or hardware designer?u ever call a pet-control to fix ur home electric problem even if they claim that they can do it?????who being smart here???? 


they failed in creating a good ui becoz they r not a freaking software-master,and they dont point a gun to ur head asking u to use thier products,if u dont like it,dont use it.

wake up,real Freak 
 

Un huh, your grammar or rather lack of grammar has given you away friend. Before I, two, expose you for what you did I'm going to, one, answer your rather silly post first.

 

1) It's your kind of attitude and those like you who have caused nothing but stagnation in the so called audiophile DAP market. You buy these half baked products then proceed to covet them like some sort of holy grail and defend the companies who make them like they were your own family. The reality is they're a half baked product which was not well thought out and whose function and usability is deeply flawed to the point that it becomes a pain to use on an everyday basis. To further compound the problem you can't seem to realize that these companies you defend tooth and nail couldn't care less about you and if truth be known the only thing they care about is getting your money all the while offering you as little as possible in return. In my neck of the woods people like that are called suckers.

 

To further expand on my rebuttal, no Apple isn't a audio company they're a hardware/software company or at least they were only that in their pre iPod days. I find it interesting that a computer company who was nearly bankrupt and was nearly driven into oblivion by Microsoft would be the ones to enter the MP3 market and completely dominate it leaving hardened audio companies like Sony, JVC, Sharp, iRiver, etc behind in the dust. Unlike these other audio companies it took a hardware/software company to revolutionize the market by realizing that the user experience and proper software integration onto the hardware was the key to taking away market share from the giants of the market. They also realized that by offering a complete integrated media platform that seamlessly meshed in with the user experience would be the key factor for future prosperity and maintaining market share for the long haul. They would later apply many of the same idea's they used in the MP3 player market and apply it in the mobile handset market. The rest is history.

 

You want to pay top dollar for some DAP that sounds good but runs an unstable OS be my guest. Unlike you me and others like me want to pay top dollar for a great sounding player that functions as advertised and doesn't force us to spend countless hours of our precious time finding workarounds or encoding 100's of GB of our collection all because some company can't be bothered to provide proper media file support. Personally, when I read a player has apps such as playlists then I naturally expect it to work. When I read a player is supposed to support certain tags I expect it to read those tags and not force me to waste God only knows how much time having to retag my files because said player can't read the tags because the company couldn't be bothered to either properly support those tags or troubleshoot to make sure the player read the tags properly. When I read a player can have it's FW updated then I expect to be able to plug it into my computer and update it. I don't expect the player when plugged into my computer to sit there dormant while Windows flashes various error messages all the while chiming away repeatedly because the stupid player has a bug in it's USB communication software.

 

In short, I expect that when I buy a player it should work accordingly as advertised with all it's advertised capabilities functioning as advertised. If not, I at least expect that the company who put the silly thing on the market to offer proper support with FW updates that promises to fix any problems. If you don't expect that and are happy with a half baked product then please send me your address. I have a couple of bridges and some swampland to sell you for cheap.

 

2) The next time you post a comment on my YouTube channel I suggest you show a little class and not use the words stupid and ignorant. If you thought you were being smart by creating an account on YouTube and posting insulting remarks on there you weren't any only served to make yourself look quite ignorant. You're the first troll I've ever met who didn't at least try and change his posting style to not be found out and exposed as a troll. I really don't understand why you would elect to act like an uneducated banana and insult someone instead of trying to be cordial. If you have a problem with my video or this thread then hit the red x icon in the right hand corner and leave. I'm entitled to voice my opinions in this community like everyone else. If that doesn't sit well with you then tough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

DF, I made similar comments in the HM901 thread after reading complaints about the UI and other issues that made it sound like HiFiMan were back to business as usual, and received the following somewhat arrogant responses:

 

1. Go and buy one then you can complain about the firmware

 

2. HiFiMan will eventually fix the firmware and then this DAP will be perfect !

 

Very reminiscent of the 'groupthink' denial around the Rega Apollo CDP when folk began reporting issues on the forums - it's now widely accepted that Rega managed to get brilliant sound from a device that had a mind of it's own when it came to actually playing CDs. No matter how brilliant the sound is, I dont believe it's an excuse for marketing something that simply doesn't work per the manual. 

Hey estreeter nice to see you again. It's been awhile since I've run across you welcome to the thread.


Edited by DigitalFreak - 9/25/13 at 8:04pm
post #102 of 1453
Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

 

Unlike you me and others like me

 

Dude you freaking me out there. What exactly are you trying to say? LOL.

post #103 of 1453

Relevant to the conversation - there seems to be that new 128G Sony DAP that appears to be doing things right, or at the very least, a little bit better.

 

See what we want is not impossible. They just have to know that we want it. Instead of buying things that make it seem like we want what they thought we wanted when in reality we didn't want it, not at all. 

post #104 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinQY View Post
 

Relevant to the conversation - there seems to be that new 128G Sony DAP that appears to be doing things right, or at the very least, a little bit better.

 

See what we want is not impossible. They just have to know that we want it. Instead of buying things that make it seem like we want what they thought we wanted when in reality we didn't want it, not at all. 

 

Well not really TwinQY. The fact that is has no expandable memory kills it right on the spot. Yes 128 G is still a lot of space. But not really for an audiophile DAP that is meant to play FLAC and 24 bit material. 128 GB is nothing really. Now with 128 GB onboard as well as a micro SD slot (which is not hard to implement at all and would add very minimal increase to the total cost of the product) would indeed warrant this as an excellent option. But they shot themselves in the foot here. Not sure why but they keep repeating the same mistake and the player won't take off in my book due to the limitation. Now apple can get away with it because it's apple. They have the fan base and people are ingrained into their ways. I can't say the same about Sony. They lost the market a long time ago and never got it back. With decisions like this they never will.


Edited by lee730 - 9/25/13 at 8:52pm
post #105 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

2. HiFiMan will eventually fix the firmware and then this DAP will be perfect !

 

I thought this for a while about the DX100, but got sick of the updates fixing one thing but breaking another. 

 

For whomever asked, I think I got up to about 1.2.7 when I sold mine. Then the new owner complained that there was dust under the screen! I refunded the guy, got it back, disassembled it and cleaned it and re-sold it. There shouldn't be dust under the screen of a new product! I think though that when an item becomes popular the companies can start to rush and cut corners. Little Dot did this when they became popular, with items received in cosmetically poor condition. At least in both cases the companies are good about responding to customer issues.

 

Something I want to add: The comments people have made have been very interesting. There are no really "wrong" points of view -- looking at each of the thoughts people have had is good for getting a bigger picture of what is really going on and why we have the problems we do with products. I have been using Apple products since the Apple II and I see a similar tolerance of problems as I saw with people in the Windows world (and Mac to a degree too). Also the world of mobiles. I owned a couple of Moto Razrs and, as attractive as the designs were, the software was abysmal. It is no wonder Apple came in and took over the market -- the widespread mediocrity was ripe for a big change. I think the same thing is possible here.

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