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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 58

post #856 of 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach-X View Post

Those are the ones with common sense, and who aren't afraid of a double blind test.

 

Or denial.

post #857 of 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post
 

Some on this forum have mentioned the Studio sounds no different than a Sansa Clip lol....


Some indeed....

I remember due to a certain someone being rather skeptical about Hisound players at first due to shooting his lid off.. If anything this only intrigued me more to try a Hisound unit then make my own judgment. (as one should on Head-fi). Little to say now they're my player of choice, this goes to show how little meaning one persons opinion has on another users experience and could account for many posts in this thread (mine, yours, his etc) To be fair I'm sure as yourself synergy with 3rd Anv can be a little fussy, more so than the 2nd edition Studio It seemed to be with IEM's. I keep saying though if you get it right, you wouldn't care if you were plugging your IEM in a lump of hot dog poo and poking it with a stick to change tracks, the sounds so good, you don't really care. ;) 

And Studio V is hardly a dog poo user expereince so we're already winning. ;)

post #858 of 1303
I was one of the audiophile grade DAP doubters - bit that was before I got the chance to hear the Studio V3 or the X5. Have to admit - despite my skepticism, I'm now a convert. My V3 does sound better (and before anyone asks - it was volume matched with my iP4 with an spl meter - and my wife helped me with the switching). Why did I go to the hassle of doing it - because I had to know for myself.

H20 - I'm with you. Would love to see better firmware for the V3 - but I'm guessing we won't see anything any time soon. I've learnt to live with the 'quirks' now, and for my travel next two weeks (NZ > US > Canada > Sweden > FRG >SIng > Home) I tried loading a 64Gb card with my entire library (~ 4700 tracks) - using AAC ~300kbps. I know I can't differentiate this high bit-rate from FLAC anyway - so personally it doesn't matter to me.

I removed all the tags this time and am just using folder browsing. Boot time is just over 2 minutes - but small price to pay for having the whole library on a single card. Battery life is still incredible, as is form factor. And the sound [big grin].

I still find amusing that most of the off the cuff remarks (Mach X) are the ones that come from people who have never actually tried the players.
post #859 of 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

I was one of the audiophile grade DAP doubters - bit that was before I got the chance to hear the Studio V3 or the X5. Have to admit - despite my skepticism, I'm now a convert. My V3 does sound better (and before anyone asks - it was volume matched with my iP4 with an spl meter - and my wife helped me with the switching). Why did I go to the hassle of doing it - because I had to know for myself.

H20 - I'm with you. Would love to see better firmware for the V3 - but I'm guessing we won't see anything any time soon. I've learnt to live with the 'quirks' now, and for my travel next two weeks (NZ > US > Canada > Sweden > FRG >SIng > Home) I tried loading a 64Gb card with my entire library (~ 4700 tracks) - using AAC ~300kbps. I know I can't differentiate this high bit-rate from FLAC anyway - so personally it doesn't matter to me.

I removed all the tags this time and am just using folder browsing. Boot time is just over 2 minutes - but small price to pay for having the whole library on a single card. Battery life is still incredible, as is form factor. And the sound [big grin].

I still find amusing that most of the off the cuff remarks (Mach X) are the ones that come from people who have never actually tried the players.



That's the one Brooko, don't knock it till you try it. :)

I think once you do this (try something) you take a step back thinking twice before heavily deciding an opinion next time or taking someone elses opinion for granted, or.......playing the "I've read this much" take a stab and say A is better than B.

There's so many variants and differing preferences the only real way to find out is by hands on experience.

For example, (unless I was crazy) my budget would not allow me to try AK240, so for that reason I won't say anything about it as I learned from Hisound units everything is so un-concreted and often a band wagon of 'read only' impression  float around these forums. I can complain about the price of AK240 as I think it's unacceptable and I cannot afford it, though speaking about its user interface, sound quality among other areas only hands on experience can judge........ not my keyboard....
 

post #860 of 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post
 


Hey ClieOS, word behind the scenes is you may be retiring from doing reviews for awhile. I think I speak for the majority on here in saying we all hope the rumor is false. I'll admit I haven't always seen eye to eye concerning some of your reviews but overall the vast majority of what I've read from you have been quite entertaining and spot on. It would be a loss to the community it you decided to retire.

 

There are many factors involved but ultimately I have decided early last year that I'll have to cut back on the time I spent on reviewing, and will be focused on posting review over at my own blog instead of in the forum. Basically it is a 'scale down' for me. It was fun while it lasted, but one can't live on fun alone.

post #861 of 1303

Actually Brooko, I am one of the fortunates who never had to A/B any players or IEM's.   Several years ago I went to Hawaii and visitied the Honolulo zoo and went to see this one particular elephant.    This critter gave me a wealth of info and is still doing so through telepathy.   He has never forgotten my name, drinks a lot, but also is a bona-fide member of Headfi, definately a member AT LARGE.   His ears tell the tale:

and his name is:   Lee730:

 

post #862 of 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

Or denial.
That always makes me chuckle. As if those of us doubtful of dubious "audiophile" claims don't want good sound. Flowery rhetoric and sighted listening prove nothing. Why doesn't stereophile do real scientific testing? They'd lose all their readers who can't believe their $10000 amp sounds the same as a $200 one. Removing all your tags JUST to get your dap to play? The cheapest radio shack player reads tags just fine. If these companies can't put together a unit that provides basic functionality, what makes you think they know anything about sound? They don't fix them because suckers keep opening their wallets for the next broken iteration. Who's really in denial here?
Edited by Mach-X - 2/23/14 at 8:38am
post #863 of 1303

The Sony NWZ-ZX1 has been in my online shopping cart for a week and I'm just not motivated to click the buy button. Some of my lack of motivation goes to installing Viper4Android  (V4A) on my old Galaxy S2 smartphone. I'm left to wonder what is suppose to be better about the ZX1.

 

Even without firsthand evidence, I can believe boutique DAPs sound better than an iPod (with the earphones I use). My iPod Touch 5G (using the SE846) with Apple's music player has a 2D in your face (reasonably clear) center mid-range. Some louder foreground sounds panned right and left are also passable in clarity (but not good). However, the quieter parts of music are blurred. The treble (no matter its location) is not sharp. The bass is so so and lacks sub-bass extension. The iPod's tonality sounds artificial. The iPod Touch 5G and 846 may just be a bad pairing.

 

My Galaxy S2 (after installing V4A) is better in all categories (clarity, bass, 3D soundstage, dynamics, etc) than my iPod Touch 5G (paired with the 846). Perhaps software improvements could raise the level of the iPod. I have many of the apps for the iPod (Accudio, Equalizer, EQu, etc.,) that are discussed here, but they don't help much IMO.

 

So again, I don't have any trouble believing the boutique DAPs are a step up from the iPod/iPhone sound, but would it be a step up for me now (post V4A)? I have my doubts.

post #864 of 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach-X View Post

That always makes me chuckle. As if those of us doubtful of dubious "audiophile" claims don't want good sound. Flowery rhetoric and sighted listening prove nothing. Why doesn't stereophile do real scientific testing? They'd lose all their readers who can't believe their $10000 amp sounds the same as a $200 one. Removing all your tags JUST to get your dap to play? The cheapest radio shack player reads tags just fine. If these companies can't put together a unit that provides basic functionality, what makes you think they know anything about sound? They don't fix them because suckers keep opening their wallets for the next broken iteration. Who's really in denial here?

funny, have you tried to put Flac or Wav on UnModed iPod?
Good luck and please do us a favour, before presenting critique do some due dilligence, for once i hate iPod because i hate iTunes but iPod cannot without this bogus software.

As regards simple gear being equal to audiophile expensive gear, you know i had a few sceptics who thought high end is only about money, but after they listened to my system now they tend to ask me about every component they planning to buy. Suffice to.tell one of them wanted to listen to my system for five minutes, but in the end spend 1.5 hours and could not stand up from the couch until i reminded him about his time constraint. biggrin.gif
post #865 of 1303
ah ja, i had a few iPods and daughter have them still, and to me all they sound closed and claustrophobic, artificially warm and digital no matter amping, though i did not try rockboxed or moded versions. Even small cheap C3 will beat them in SQ and my RWAK is light years ahead of any iPod and this is why i will gladly tolerate some imperfections because in the end this is all about sound.
post #866 of 1303
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach-X View Post


That always makes me chuckle. As if those of us doubtful of dubious "audiophile" claims don't want good sound. Flowery rhetoric and sighted listening prove nothing. Why doesn't stereophile do real scientific testing? They'd lose all their readers who can't believe their $10000 amp sounds the same as a $200 one. Removing all your tags JUST to get your dap to play? The cheapest radio shack player reads tags just fine. If these companies can't put together a unit that provides basic functionality, what makes you think they know anything about sound? They don't fix them because suckers keep opening their wallets for the next broken iteration. Who's really in denial here?


Sorry, I've heard a 600 bone amp and a 100 bone amp and I've heard a difference. I've heard differences between my Leckerton amps as well as my iCAN amp as well as my Aune T1 amp. I've even heard a difference between my Aune's onboard DAC vs my CLAS-db DAC. Heck, I heard differences on my Leckerton UHA 6S MKII when I op amp rolled. For me hearing a difference between amps is no longer a matter of debate. As for DAP's, I hear differences between my AK120 vs my Studio V and easily hear differences between my Clip and iPod Classic and iPod Touch vs my AK player and V player. Everything else I whole hartedly agree with. The UI issues are fast becoming a bad joke for many users, IMO. The manufacturers should wake up and smell the coffee instead of releasing product after product with broken UI's.

post #867 of 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post
 


Sorry, I've heard a 600 bone amp and a 100 bone amp and I've heard a difference. I've heard differences between my Leckerton amps as well as my iCAN amp as well as my Aune T1 amp. I've even heard a difference between my Aune's onboard DAC vs my CLAS-db DAC. Heck, I heard differences on my Leckerton UHA 6S MKII when I op amp rolled. For me hearing a difference between amps is no longer a matter of debate. As for DAP's, I hear differences between my AK120 vs my Studio V and easily hear differences between my Clip and iPod Classic and iPod Touch vs my AK player and V player. Everything else I whole hartedly agree with. The UI issues are fast becoming a bad joke for many users, IMO. The manufacturers should wake up and smell the coffee instead of releasing product after product with broken UI's.


Different does not automatically imply better SQ. I think that get's lost in a lot of the hyping for whatever product is being discussed.

 

The functional problems are past a bad joke phase and have almost not become culturally embedded within the apologist user community. There seems to be a lot of "If we don't buy it they won't be able to afford to build the next version" logic running rampant. I hear a lot of excuses for these manu's that largely focus on them being poor little guys who cannot afford to do the RD and QC required to market a functional product.

Simply put. If you cannot afford to make a functioning product and support it, you've bitten off more than you can chew. Your efforts may be better employed in making the next trinket for a "Happy meal".

post #868 of 1303

+1

post #869 of 1303
Thread Starter 

Ok, this is way off topic but I just had to post this. If this actually happened I have only one word to say. EPIC!!!!

 

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/94/94d891d60b7088ddcf92720324097dc7733fd67c6119629ccb8d240ea451478f.jpg

post #870 of 1303
DigitalFreek, thanks, reading this i nearly wet my pants laughing, especially the second logo and the end of the mail exchange biggrin.gif
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