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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 45

post #661 of 1302

Only issue I have with the Studio V 3rd (other than the UI which I got used to) is the noise with my UE7's and Roxannes.  It works great with my grados and other phones on its own and with HD800's even with an amp.  I can get it to work with the UE7 and Roxanne with an shure volume control dohicky, though.

 

Oh, and DF, it's the pennant, not pendent, heh, just so you know someone is paying attention to you.:biggrin: 


Edited by bearFNF - 1/21/14 at 5:15pm
post #662 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgdinamo View Post
 

 

Thank GOD we have the fatman and lostinspace who have figured it all out (even without listening to any of the devices they are the all knowing super head-fi gurus who just 'get it').

Perhaps they should be named the official leaders of the occupy head-fi movement that sets fair prices for all the dumb vendors and customers on this forum.

Pathetic.

Au contraire, mon ami. For both your sake and mine, I encourage you not to just read the first line and jump to conclusions, and instead ensure that you've correctly processed all given information :beerchug: 

post #663 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatmanSize48 View Post
 

Au contraire, mon ami. For both your sake and mine, I encourage you not to just read the first line and jump to conclusions, and instead ensure that you've correctly processed all given information :beerchug: 

 

I found your attack on Tera player (which I happen to have) ridiculous. Every review I have ever read (and especially by owners) raves about the SQ of this device (and I have had it for 6 monte and wholeheartedly agree with the other owners - best piece of electronics I have every purchased and I'm a geek who spends a lot of money of fancy computers, cameras, and other gadgets).

My opinion is that people like Charles Altmann have every right to charge whatever they want. They know how much time they have invested in their devices and how much their time to make this product is worth to them.

If people don't like the product features or price they shouldn't buy - but implying that devices are technically not good without trying them just because they don't meet someone's desired list of features or price point (often unrealistically pulled out of thin air) is nonsense.

I guess I will go as far as to say that I disagree with the hypothesis of this thread that the state of the Audophile DAP market is sad. On the contrary, there are some great DAP's available (so the only sad thing may be that many people can't afford them - but that's a different story altogether).

post #664 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgdinamo View Post
 

 

I found your attack on Tera player (which I happen to have) ridiculous. Every review I have ever read (and especially by owners) raves about the SQ of this device (and I have had it for 6 monte and wholeheartedly agree with the other owners - best piece of electronics I have every purchased and I'm a geek who spends a lot of money of fancy computers, cameras, and other gadgets).

My opinion is that people like Charles Altmann have every right to charge whatever they want. They know how much time they have invested in their devices and how much their time to make this product is worth to them.

If people don't like the product features or price they shouldn't buy - but implying that devices are technically not good without trying them just because they don't meet someone's desired list of features or price point (often unrealistically pulled out of thin air) is nonsense.

I guess I will go as far as to say that I disagree with the hypothesis of this thread that the state of the Audophile DAP market is sad. On the contrary, there are some great DAP's available (so the only sad thing may be that many people can't afford them - but that's a different story altogether).

Not really. Business 101 will tell you that the best product on in the universe is a dismall failure if it fails to reach a market and sits on the shelf.

Ultimately Altmann's failure here is to keep pricing unobtainably high, when in fact the means to produce in quantity at a cheaper price are easily available.

 

Personally, I tired of the whole "snob appeal" in HiFi decades ago.

post #665 of 1302

That's more like like it.  I didn't feel this thread had enough vitriol lately, until the last few pages emerged.  =)

 

Meanwhile, this DAP market is hell for someone like me:  I love music AND gadgets.  I can't believe the amount of $$$ I seriously contemplate spending on some of these devices.  Glad I ditched credit cards several years ago.  I now pay upfront, and don't have monthly reminders (payments) of my impulsive need to try another gadget.

post #666 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post




I own an iPhone 4S, so I'm not sure if my observations are of any use here, but:

 

Interesting thoughts. you found it lacking vs what, exactly?

post #667 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post
 

Not really. Business 101 will tell you that the best product on in the universe is a dismall failure if it fails to reach a market and sits on the shelf.

Ultimately Altmann's failure here is to keep pricing unobtainably high, when in fact the means to produce in quantity at a cheaper price are easily available.

 

How do you know what Altmann's goal was and why do you assume he failed? I get the impression (reading a lot of early Tera threads and his web page) that he started out just wanting to make a device for himself and after messing with it for couple of years he created what he wanted and then decided to see if other enthusiasts may like it.

To me he never came across as some businessman who is really interested in making a whole lot of money from Tera. If you look at his other products it all seems very unplanned and all over the place - he just picks up something he is interested in and

plays around with it for a while - then sells some, gets bored with it and moves on to whatever interests him next (doubling the price is almost like he is telling everyone to leave him alone and not bother him with Tera too much - he'll still make a few is someone wants it really badly and will pay the very high price, but he certainly knows fewer will be ordered and is probably perfectly fine with that).

Anyway, the only way you can accept these types of unique products and manufacturers are to think of them this way. You can't apply business 101 reasoning when you know he is not manufacturing them on some automated factory line. They are all hand made by one guy and a lot of the normal business rules and assumptions you are trying to follow don't apply (and if you don't like that approach there is nothing wrong with that - just ignore him and move on). 

post #668 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgdinamo View Post
 

 

How do you know what Altmann's goal was and why do you assume he failed? I get the impression (reading a lot of early Tera threads and his web page) that he started out just wanting to make a device for himself and after messing with it for couple of years he created what he wanted and then decided to see if other enthusiasts may like it.

To me he never came across as some businessman who is really interested in making a whole lot of money from Tera. If you look at his other products it all seems very unplanned and all over the place - he just picks up something he is interested in and

plays around with it for a while - then sells some, gets bored with it and moves on to whatever interests him next (doubling the price is almost like he is telling everyone to leave him alone and not bother him with Tera too much - he'll still make a few is someone wants it really badly and will pay the very high price, but he certainly knows fewer will be ordered and is probably perfectly fine with that).

Anyway, the only way you can accept these types of unique products and manufacturers are to think of them this way. You can't apply business 101 reasoning when you know he is not manufacturing them on some automated factory line. They are all hand made by one guy and a lot of the normal business rules and assumptions you are trying to follow don't apply (and if you don't like that approach there is nothing wrong with that - just ignore him and move on). 


It actually started as a DIY project. Hardly the genesis of a mesopheric priced audio product.

 

I have to consider that if your intent is to exclude as many users as you can you have really failed to understand the art of music itself. I am really sorry to break it to you but there is nowhere near enough technology in that unit to justify it's price.

post #669 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post
 

I am really sorry to break it to you but there is nowhere near enough technology in that unit to justify it's price.

 

I don't care how much technology is in there - because what is there is enough to produce best SQ I have ever heard - so totally worth it to me to justify the price and by far the best 880 Euro I have ever spent on any piece of electronics (and I would pay the current price for another one if I lost the one I have).

post #670 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgdinamo View Post
 

 

I don't care how much technology is in there - because what is there is enough to produce best SQ I have ever heard - so totally worth it to me to justify the price and by far the best 880 Euro I have ever spent on any piece of electronics (and I would pay the current price for another one if I lost the one I have).

 

Well, why not buy another one then and sell me your used one for twenty quid? That should cover the postage.  If it really is that good, you'll be making a benevolent gesture that can only lead to more of us hearing the best sound quality ever. If I don't agree, you can have it back.

 

When's the next London meet up? I really want to explore some of these devices, to see if the Emperor truly is starkers.


Edited by Lostinspace - 1/21/14 at 11:05pm
post #671 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
 

 

Well, why not buy another one then and sell me your used one for twenty quid? That should cover the postage.  If it really is that good, you'll be making a benevolent gesture that can only lead to more of us hearing the best sound quality ever. If I don't agree, you can have it back.

 

When's the next London meet up? I really want to explore some of these devices, to see if the Emperor truly is starkers.

 

I may buy another one for my own backup - that's the problem with one man shops - you never know how much longer they will be making them so I actually have been considering this as I doubt anyone else will make something I enjoy this much (perhaps SQ wise they eventually will but I doubt someone will replicate this size and form factor).

You should certainly feel free to save some money and buy yourself a nice device - although I would not recommend Tera for you (you started out with bias against it before ever listening to it so the chances you would ever admit you were wrong are very slim).

post #672 of 1302
Next meet is April. After going to the last one I bought the dx100 c4 and ak100. I'd be surprised if you weren't pleased with the Sq coming from some of the setups. I heard the tera at the last meet and felt privileged to have been given the opportunity to do so
post #673 of 1302
April eh? Where can i find details? I looked in the meet up forum section but seemed to draw a blank....I am pretty blind though.
post #674 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post
 

Some of you on these boards know me quite well while others have run across my posts on various occasions. Those of you who know me know that, as a general rule, I try my best to never rant, troll, or slam products for the sake of slamming it. As far a brand loyalty is concerned I'm quite an agnostic and will heap praise on a product when I feel it deserves such praise. What companies name may be etched on this product usually has very little bearing on how I would rate a product. I've been active on these boards for over 2 years now and in the span of that time I've witnessed some very innovative products hit the audiophile market as well as some world class duds. I've also shaken my head various times when reading posts from all sorts of people who have heaped praise on certain products all for the cause of overzealous brand loyalty.

 

Overall, my audio journey, as a whole, has been quite a positive one. I have of coarse run across my own share of duds over the last couple of years and as such I've treated it as a learning experience. My interest/expertise of choice has always centered more around mobile due to a rather busy life. As such, I've made some rather wonderful discoveries in the areas of mobile amps/DAC's, IEM's, CIEM's, and mobile headphones that's served to enrichen my personal life and my love of music. It's that love of music that first lead me here to head-fi and for me it will ultimately always be that love of music that drives me to further explore deeper into this hobby as well as some of the friendly bonds I've fashioned with other users on here who also search out the same experience in this hobby.

 

Although I've been quite pleased and feel rather lucky to have experienced the joy that comes from witnessing first hand what a nice audio setup can accomplish in music enjoyment it hasn't all been a happy skip down the yellow brick road to the wizards castle. The one area that's been a huge irritant for me has been the so called " boutique audiophile DAP market". For the life of me I can't understand why some of these companies seem to think that it's acceptable to release half finished products and to charge high boutique like prices for players that are far from deserving of the word boutique or great or audiophile. It's not to say I haven't heard great sound from some of these player's that isn't deserving of having the word audiophile attached to their description. Rather, it is to say they don't deserve the title of player, great, or, convenient due to the rather piss poor user experience due to ridiculously incompetent like firmware functionality. As a rule I don't like to rant but after being stung yet a second time by the so called audiophile DAP markets newest players shoddy OS performance I vented the only way I knew how, my YouTube channel.

 

When I vented and posted the video up I never expected the reactions I would receive. In a span of 1 day my views would hit almost 200 and I would receive a flow of new subscribers. These numbers are a ridiculous pittance in the sea of YouTube's huge sized vloggers but for such a tiny channel as mine they were quite a break from the norm. I also began to receive PM's on my Facebook page from people venting their own concerns and bad experiences with the audiophile market of whom all were people I never talked to before. As such, I've decided to carry the message further and post the video directly onto head-fi in it's own thread. Below is the video I've created showing me venting in not to candid terms. Please watch it and feel free to post your thought on this thread. I know there's enough of us out there who have been left with a bad taste in our mouths over the high prices we've paid for players with shoddy firmware that only makes us want to smash the player against the nearest wall. Please post your honest opinions and let it all out. Let these companies see that we aren't dumb and as such are becoming fed up with second rate players with boutique pricing.

 

Perhaps you are tapping them together far too vigorously at that price. Might I suggest a wiser use of money? http://www.shinyshiny.tv/tadpoles-main.jpg

post #675 of 1302

It's not looking so sad for me anymore ;).

 

http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-x5-high-res-portable-music-player

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