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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 41

post #601 of 1302
If you have to find and fix failures, you're not the buyer but a paying Guinea pig. Passion goes out the window when you have to search 200 tracks to find the one you want to listen to or keep the DAP on all the time because shutting it down will mean a 5 minute wait before it can play music. Then again, there are people who enjoy sadomasochism too.
post #602 of 1302

glad I got me a Hi-Res Walkman... I don't do guinea-pig work.

post #603 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by gikigill View Post

If you have to find and fix failures, you're not the buyer but a paying Guinea pig. Passion goes out the window when you have to search 200 tracks to find the one you want to listen to or keep the DAP on all the time because shutting it down will mean a 5 minute wait before it can play music. Then again, there are people who enjoy sadomasochism too.

 

Do you consider everyone who is still using vinyl Guinea pigs who enjoy sadomasochism? Because last I checked there are no playlists or even forward/back skipping with vinyl (not to even talk about searching 200 tracks).

But IMHO it's still the most satisfying listening experience because of best SQ (and there are many others who agree).

post #604 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgdinamo View Post
 

 

Do you consider everyone who is still using vinyl Guinea pigs who enjoy sadomasochism? Because last I checked there are no playlists or even forward/back skipping with vinyl (not to even talk about searching 200 tracks).

But IMHO it's still the most satisfying listening experience because of best SQ (and there are many others who agree).


Well. Turntables are not sold as having those capabilities. Are they?

post #605 of 1302
Just do some research and not rush to buy the first batch...if u wish the gadget behaves just the way u like without flaws.... It applies to all other digital gadgets, headphones, c/iem...
post #606 of 1302
Sony surely got it right but in full disclosure, I am a Sony fan boy.

Turntables have very poor shock absorption and low capacity media, not a great choice for portable usage.
post #607 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post
 

Well. Turntables are not sold as having those capabilities. Are they?

 

No and thank GOD that.

post #608 of 1302

My brief thoughts:

 

1. If I buy something and it doesn't work as advertised, due to inherent bad design rather than the fault of that specific unit, I consider that dishonest promotion and I have every right to be pissed off and complain and demand a refund.

2. If it weren't for the explosion in hi-res music as a new way to fleece punters, these high-end DAPs would be stripped of their USPs and be left looking woefully rubbish.  Its arguable that anything beyond 16/44 is undetectable to human ears and people who claim that high resolution files sound better are usually listening to differently mastered source music.

3. Even if hi-res was provable as worthwhile, why would anyone want to listen to it via a portable player, in environments where any detectable difference would immediately be negated?

4. The cost of high end DAPs is extortionate. When you can get perfectly great sound from a smartphone that does a million and one other things for you, at a fraction of the price, or a dedicated little DAP that does 16/44 for a fraction of a fraction, why would any sane person mortgage their internal organs to get something so bulky and dysfunctional? I'm sorry, but they saw you coming mate.

post #609 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
 

My brief thoughts:

 

1. If I buy something and it doesn't work as advertised, due to inherent bad design rather than the fault of that specific unit, I consider that dishonest promotion and I have every right to be pissed off and complain and demand a refund.

2. If it weren't for the explosion in hi-res music as a new way to fleece punters, these high-end DAPs would be stripped of their USPs and be left looking woefully rubbish.  Its arguable that anything beyond 16/44 is undetectable to human ears and people who claim that high resolution files sound better are usually listening to differently mastered source music.

3. Even if hi-res was provable as worthwhile, why would anyone want to listen to it via a portable player, in environments where any detectable difference would immediately be negated?

4. The cost of high end DAPs is extortionate. When you can get perfectly great sound from a smartphone that does a million and one other things for you, at a fraction of the price, or a dedicated little DAP that does 16/44 for a fraction of a fraction, why would any sane person mortgage their internal organs to get something so bulky and dysfunctional? I'm sorry, but they saw you coming mate.

I take it you've never heard one of these DAPs correct?

 

I'm also not a believer in hi-res being better - I'm too pragmatic for that.  I've tested myself many times (abx), and I know for me, aac256 is perfectly transparent.  I also agree with you - most who claim hi-res sounds better likely won't have conducted a proper abx.

 

But ......

 

I also was a firm believer that a decent smartphone could give you all the audio you'd need when on-the-go.  That was until I had the chance to listen to, evaluate, review, and eventually buy the HSA Studio V3 Anniversary.  Now remember - that I could have returned it at any stage during the evaluation - and at times I was tempted to.  The UI took some time getting used to - especially coming from an Apple ecosystem.  The V3 still has it's quirks - but they haven't stopped me using it daily.

 

Here's why I've kept it, and now use it for almost all of my portable listening.

  1. Unbelievably good battery life
  2. High output power (can drive my sensitive IEMs and also cans like the DT880 and HD600)
  3. Most important - it sounds better than my iPhone4 (and that also sounds pretty darn good as well).  I have no idea how HSA did it - crossfeed / some sort of DSP / other?  But the Studio V3 simply sounds more spacious with all of my headphones.  I've volume matched, compared, and basically had every reason to dislike the unit.  But for me - it's well worth the money.  The sonics are the key.

 

I'm making an assumption (because you have nothing in your profile to indicate either way) that you haven't heard any of the so called audiophile DAPs.  If you haven't - before casting judgements (eg " I'm sorry, but they saw you coming mate") - maybe you might want to actually listen to a couple.  it really might open your eyes to the possibility that as good as some of the smartphones are - some of these players may actually be better ....

post #610 of 1302

How do I listen and evaluate these DAPs then?  I don't have the money to buy them.

 

I'd gladly road test them if I could.

post #611 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
 

My brief thoughts:

 

1. If I buy something and it doesn't work as advertised, due to inherent bad design rather than the fault of that specific unit, I consider that dishonest promotion and I have every right to be pissed off and complain and demand a refund.

2. If it weren't for the explosion in hi-res music as a new way to fleece punters, these high-end DAPs would be stripped of their USPs and be left looking woefully rubbish.  Its arguable that anything beyond 16/44 is undetectable to human ears and people who claim that high resolution files sound better are usually listening to differently mastered source music.

3. Even if hi-res was provable as worthwhile, why would anyone want to listen to it via a portable player, in environments where any detectable difference would immediately be negated?

4. The cost of high end DAPs is extortionate. When you can get perfectly great sound from a smartphone that does a million and one other things for you, at a fraction of the price, or a dedicated little DAP that does 16/44 for a fraction of a fraction, why would any sane person mortgage their internal organs to get something so bulky and dysfunctional? I'm sorry, but they saw you coming mate.

 

Here are my thoughts about the points your raised (point by point):

 

1. I agree if something does not work as advertised it's dishonest promotion - but that is true for any other products as well. You can be angry about that and demand refund (you have every right to do this), or take time before you buy to research the reviews by experts and owners and reduce the chance to be disappointed after you purchase.

 

2. Completely disagree - I have been using iPhones/ipads for years and actually have my entire CD collection in my iTunes in ALAC 16/44 so those are the files I use on my iPhone. However, over the last 6 months I have been using Tera Player instead of iPhone and the difference is night and day - so much so that I cannot listen to my phone any longer. Even 16/44 sounds much better on TP but 16/96 and 16/128 sound dramatically better (for well mastered albums - that is always a prerequisite). I have many of my favorite albums/artists in both 16/44 and hires (mostly from HDTracks) and the difference in SQ is really obvious and hard to believe for well mastered music.

 

3. Not sure what you mean by this - when I use my Tera Player and 1Plus2 iem on the train (daily routine during my commute to work) I close my eyes and I go back 30 years and am again 20 years old listening to the great SQ of my old vinyl turntable (instead of much lower SQ I used to listen to for years on my iPods and iPhones - I could have never mistaken sound of those devices for my old vinyl player like I do now with TP, and there are many albums I stopped listening too because they never sounded as good as I remembered them - I actually though I lost taste for that type of music but it turns out it was really due to the inferior SQ - great example of this are my Neil Young & Crazy Horse albums which sound incredible in HD on my TP - just like back in vinyl days, but sound flat and boring on my iPhone - somehow guitar distortion sounds much better when you have well mastered HD files).

 

4. For the same reason why people who are enthusiastic about photography still use very expensive SLR cameras and lenses instead of iPhones. When it comes to image quality which is what photography is ultimately about people who really care about this staff will pay a lot of money for that image quality and ignore the convenience of more portability and other bells and whistles provided by smartphones.


Edited by tgdinamo - 1/19/14 at 8:49am
post #612 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
 

How do I listen and evaluate these DAPs then?  I don't have the money to buy them.

 

 

Great question. You have already made some progress toward answering this question - just by being on this forum.

Next step is to find 5-10 very experienced people on this forum (they do exist) who have taken the time to review and in some case purchase all of these DAP's.

Then go ahead and research as many posts of these people over the years as you can and the picture will crystalize in terms of which of these senior members really know their stuff.

So, yes it sucks that you have to research the researchers themselves, but there really are quite a few people here who have tried a lot of this advanced and expensive equipment and have done the ABC comparison for the rest of the community.

And they have discussed the tradeoffs between SQ, portability, as well as all the other features (most of the stuff that is being argued about in this thread).

Anyhow, that was the approach I used and it worked out great for me (I actually ended up buying a different device than I though I would when I started and it was because I spent a lot of time considering my usage and requirements vs many threads/posts on this forum).

It is a lot of work so prepare to spend a lot of time as it's likely to be a very expensive decision.

post #613 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgdinamo View Post
 

 

Great question. You have already made some progress toward answering this question - just by being on this forum.

Next step is to find 5-10 very experienced people on this forum (they do exist) who have taken the time to review and in some case purchase all of these DAP's.

Then go ahead and research as many posts of these people over the years as you can and the picture will crystalize in terms of which of these senior members really know their stuff.

So, yes it sucks that you have to research the researchers themselves, but there really are quite a few people here who have tried a lot of this advanced and expensive equipment and have done the ABC comparison for the rest of the community.

And they have discussed the tradeoffs between SQ, portability, as well as all the other features (most of the stuff that is being argued about in this thread).

Anyhow, that was the approach I used and it worked out great for me (I actually ended up buying a different device than I though I would when I started and it was because I spent a lot of time considering my usage and requirements vs many threads/posts on this forum).

It is a lot of work so prepare to spend a lot of time as it's likely to be a very expensive decision.

 

No, you misunderstand me. I don't have (and am unlikely to ever have) enough spare money to afford these really expensive DAPs.  I want to try them before I never buy them - for free. How can I do that?

 

By the way, researching stuff via this place is like trekking across a desert of quicksand.

 

By the way 2, that Tera player looks like a monumental pisstake.


Edited by Lostinspace - 1/19/14 at 9:10am
post #614 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post

 

By the way 2, that Tera player looks like a monumental pisstake.

 

I'll cheers to that.  I couldn't fathom using that player...let alone spending the stupendous amount of requested cash on one.

:beerchug:

post #615 of 1302
Thread Starter 

The second part of the equation, the video rants about the Apple and Android fanboys but what I'm saying can also be applied to this site and the runaway brand worship you sometimes see on here

 

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