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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 36

post #526 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gignac View Post
 

zilch0md has it right.  Not only are most music customer's not looking for audiophile DAPs, they don't even know/care that it will improve the quality of their listening.  They assume the headphone handles that end of it.

 

In addition to that, having worked in retail for a good chunk of time, buyers for these stores surely don't even have the brands WE know and love on their radar.

 

This gets back to another, crucial point: audiophile gear has been around for a long time - much longer than the envelope of apple products - and it's always been a niche market.  Most people listen to music for different reasons, and with different focus, than folks like us.  Even when I show off my equipment to the friends of mine who otherwise listen to their white earbuds and are amazed at what they hear, they're not of the opinion that they can't go back to their low-fi equipment, and they're certainly not going to shell out the bucks like some of us do (possibly far too often.)

 

It's not a supply-side issue as much as a demand issue.  If there were half a billion people clamoring to spend $200-$1200 for a quality DAP, surely the bugs would be worked out a bit faster than they have been so far.  The cell phone, whatever we might think of it, is overwhelmingly the audio source of choice.

Well written post - the bolded text nailed it.  I drop in here every now and again.  Your post nailed the frustrating but true aspect of it.  I use an iPhone 64 gb and a Centrance HIFI-M8 when I need to drive headphones portably, or want to run the phone into an amp.  I use the iPhone alone with my ciems.  I have yet to use a a DAP that is "better to me" than an iDevice.  The AK's come close, but the value proposition isn't there for me.

post #527 of 1453
If they were on sale in every shop going they'd lose some of their appeal, part of the reason some of us look for a change from an Apple Device. The Audiophile DAP is all about SQ for me, I am happy to put up with the quirks, it gives them a personality.
post #528 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeanidea View Post

If they were on sale in every shop going they'd lose some of their appeal, part of the reason some of us look for a change from an Apple Device. The Audiophile DAP is all about SQ for me, I am happy to put up with the quirks, it gives them a personality.
Schizophrenic in some instances.
post #529 of 1453
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearFNF View Post


Schizophrenic in some instances.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeanidea View Post

If they were on sale in every shop going they'd lose some of their appeal, part of the reason some of us look for a change from an Apple Device. The Audiophile DAP is all about SQ for me, I am happy to put up with the quirks, it gives them a personality.

I'm not crazy over the idea of putting up with schizophrenia in other people never mind my DAP's. If anything I turn to my DAP to escape all that and let the calm slowly flow over me while my music plays. The DX50 was anything but that, it felt more like a wrestling match just to get my music playing.

 

Maybe I'm being a little nieve with my next comment, the company that is finally able to put out a handset that, 1. has tons of storage, 2. has great UI, 3. hi-fi sound and 4. gives all that at an acceptable low price comparable to the crap sounding handsets on the market may very likely become the next Apple. Can it happen? Definitely. Is there a company out there who is interested in creating what I just described? Probably not.


Edited by DigitalFreak - 12/26/13 at 7:36pm
post #530 of 1453

I have actually been surprised how good my Samsung Note 3 sounds...will need to do some more testing, though.

post #531 of 1453

But that's the thing with Samsung products. I listened to a Galaxy, was pleasantly surprised, bought an S2 and was very disappointed.

 

As to demand... I don't know. It's not here at the moment but that may change suddenly. 2, 3 years ago big chain stores had far less supply in their headphones department.

post #532 of 1453

I was leaning to get an AK product, but I just hate the design.

 

I wanted to try a Fiio player, but I dont like the finish.

 

I'm desperate for a ZX-1 but learnt it doesnt support DSD while PHA-2 does. BTW, why do they stick 'Hi-Res audio' on the players?

 

It's my sad state of an audiophile.

post #533 of 1453

I'm not even sure wat DSD means. ;)

 

I just read about the X1. Perhaps I'll go for another clip until the X1 is on the market.

post #534 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post
 

 

 

 

Maybe I'm being a little nieve with my next comment, the company that is finally able to put out a handset that, 1. has tons of storage, 2. has great UI, 3. hi-fi sound and 4. gives all that at an acceptable low price comparable to the crap sounding handsets on the market may very likely become the next Apple. Can it happen? Definitely. Is there a company out there who is interested in creating what I just described? Probably not.

 

 

Don't know if you've seen but Dminor in the apple mod thread is awaiting a 256 gig compact flash card to try out in the ipod 5th gen video/classic.  IF it works that could be one solution I suppose, it's just sad that we have to boy it (bodge it yourself!).  Someone else is also looking to try the same (I presume) 256 gig card in the ipod mini.  The advantage of the mini mod is that the mini is a hell of a lot easier to get into and mod than the video is and generally a lot cheaper.  So we could end up with a 256 gig (probably 230 in reality)ipod (and you can order prebuilt ones with a hard drive that size now from ebay and the like).

post #535 of 1453

And if you can rockbox it... you'd have a good player. You'd also have the prices of used units skyrocket.

post #536 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by wijnands View Post
 

I'm not even sure wat DSD means. ;)

 

I just read about the X1. Perhaps I'll go for another clip until the X1 is on the market.

 I also dont know what it is. With the chit-chat about DSD and Sony implementing it, I thought all this time it was in their 'Hi-Res Audio' line-up of walkmans.

 

This is what Sony says about Hi-Res Audio'

High-Res Audio, which is typically referred to as “96kHz/24bit” or something higher, is made by digitally sampling an original analog audio source. The number of times at which sampling is performed (in one-second increments) is called the sampling frequency, which is expressed in hertz or “Hz”. Digitizing refers to the audio process where the sampled signal is converted (or quantized) into binary digits, consisting of 1’s and 0’s, and expressed as “bits”. The higher the number of bits, the closer the sample is to the original source. CDs are standardized at 44.1kHz/16bit, but there is no single standard for High-Resolution Audio.

An alternative way of digitizing an analog source is a method called DSD (Direct Stream Digital) which captures sound information as a sequence of single bit values with an extremely high sampling rate of either 2.8MHz or 5.6MHz. This is approximately 64 or 128 times the sampling rate of CD audio and is simply known as DSD 2.8MHz or DSD 5.6MHz. For some engineers, this is the closest a digital file sample can get to an original analog source.

 

Also there seems to be 2 kinds of DSD

  • DSD(DFF). Direct Stream Digital-DFF is the professional, uncompressed 1-bit format used in recording and mastering Super Audio CDs.
  • DSD(DSF). Direct Stream Digital-DSF represents a PC-friendly version of 1-bit DSD used to burn files onto DVD.

 

Either way its a shame that the Japan ZX-1 doesnt support it, since I dont want to buy a ZX-1 when another model may be released with it.


Edited by AUDIOBREEDER - 12/27/13 at 1:45pm
post #537 of 1453

Interesting, thanks.

 

Personally I don't see that taking off any time soon. Flac high res files are still rare enough and even then we still have too many albums that are casualties of the loudness wars.

post #538 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBREEDER View Post

 I also dont know what it is. With the chit-chat about DSD and Sony implementing it, I thought all this time it was in their 'Hi-Res Audio' line-up of walkmans.

This is what Sony says about Hi-Res Audio'
High-Res Audio, which is typically referred to as “96kHz/24bit” or something higher, is made by digitally sampling an original analog audio source. The number of times at which sampling is performed (in one-second increments) is called the sampling frequency, which is expressed in hertz or “Hz”. Digitizing refers to the audio process where the sampled signal is converted (or quantized) into binary digits, consisting of 1’s and 0’s, and expressed as “bits”. The higher the number of bits, the closer the sample is to the original source. CDs are standardized at 44.1kHz/16bit, but there is no single standard for High-Resolution Audio.
An alternative way of digitizing an analog source is a method called DSD (Direct Stream Digital) which captures sound information as a sequence of single bit values with an extremely high sampling rate of either 2.8MHz or 5.6MHz. This is approximately 64 or 128 times the sampling rate of CD audio and is simply known as DSD 2.8MHz or DSD 5.6MHz. For some engineers, this is the closest a digital file sample can get to an original analog source.

Also there seems to be 2 kinds of DSD
  • DSD(DFF). Direct Stream Digital-DFF is the professional, uncompressed 1-bit format used in recording and mastering Super Audio CDs.
  • DSD(DSF). Direct Stream Digital-DSF represents a PC-friendly version of 1-bit DSD used to burn files onto DVD.

Either way its a shame that the Japan ZX-1 doesnt support it, since I dont want to buy a ZX-1 when another model may be released with it.

I am a bit disappointed that Sony WN ZX 1 does not support DSD
I just know as my friend give me his DSD collection and can not play all DSD file
Luckily the sound quality is very good
post #539 of 1453

If it plays DSD, how will Sony sell the PHA-2 to you?

post #540 of 1453

I have a feeling that DSD support will be extended to ZX-1 through future firmware upgrade.

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