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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 27

post #391 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryten123 View Post
 

I'm quite happy with my DAP UI....and that includes my perfectly functioning DX50 :bigsmile_face:

 

I no longer follow the DX50 thread, the HM-901 thread, or the X3 and X5 threads, so I don't really know if there are any outstanding bugs with the DX50 currently, but some people are just fortunate to only use features that are working well, where others are not so lucky.  

 

But whether you just happen to be one of the lucky DX50 users or...  they've actually fixed a lot of annoying bugs, I'm happy for you, too!  Seriously.  It's refreshing to find someone who can even say they are content with these typically half-baked contraptions.

 

I'm still afraid to buy any of the current breed of "audiophile" DAPs, for not wanting to repeat the misery I suffered with the HM-801, having bought it only after waiting for their last firmware upgrade - just so that I could avoid the "growing pains."  HiFiMan had already released the HM-901 and there were no more firmware upgrades forthcoming for the now obsolete (but never actually fixed) HM-801.  I returned it under their very generous guarantee.

 

Mike

post #392 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple View Post
 

Excellent thread DF.So its this or the Tera(if it halves lol)DF try and get your hands on the Tera  to compare as i respect your views.

I just don't get the Tera, with or without the price tag.  I've read the manual, and I don't know why I would want to punish myself like that - most of the time I don't keep track of all of my albums/artists let alone want to remember their placement in a list.  And carrying a print-out of my folder schema is a bit too whacky for me.  I'll stick with my 128x64 pixel Studio screen :)

post #393 of 1453
Quote:

Seriously.  It's refreshing to find someone who can even say they are content with these typically half-baked contraptions.

Here here.

 

Now that my hisound Studio is functioning as it should, I'm actually quite comfortable with the interface.

 

I ended up giving the DX50 I purchased to my mother.  No issues yet.  It came loaded with 1.2.2 I think...didn't bother upgrading the firmware further so far.

 

The only thing that's a little annoying with these players is that they all require a significant re-tagging.  And yes, I know mp3tag is great - but not for Mac users.

--

BTW - any Mac users out there who could recommend something similar?  I haven't found an audio file tagger which allows you to selectively remove ID3v2 tags - write ID3v1 tags, and also generate tags from filename, etc.  All of those features are key for getting our cards 'audiophile dap ready'.

--

Anyhow, if they could fix that issue I would be very grateful - it would mean not having to limit the tag info...which would allow us to use the same card on different players, including ones that read ID3v2.  I'm not sure what could be so challenging to just have the player ignore the tags it cannot use, but then I'm not a software engineer.

post #394 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post
 


Thanks, I'm rather relieved that the DAP worked out for me

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

It's refreshing to find someone who can even say they are content with these typically half-baked contraptions.

 

How reassuring to know that one need only spend a minimum of at least $700 for a reliable, good-sounding DAP that works properly. :rolleyes:

post #395 of 1453

I hear you!  

 

It's ridiculous what they cost, but I'm about to spend $799 for a Sony field recorder when all I really want is a card-reading portable player with a great DAC to analog Line Out.  Given my three-year experience of flawless, bug-free performance and reliability with the Sony PCM-M10, I have high expectations for the PCM-D100.

 

My "DAP" for the past three years:  The 96/24-capable Sony PCM-M10 recorder ($210)

 

 

 

The forthcoming, bulkier, heavier, more expensive, Sony PCM-D100 ($799)

 

- 192kHz/24-bit and DSD 2.8MHz

- Records DSD, WAV and MP3

- Gap-less playback of DSD, WAV, FLAC, MP3, WMA (Non DRM), and AAC-LC (Non-DRM)

- Accepts SD, SD-HC, SD-XC, Memory Stick Pro Duo and Memory Stick Pro-HG cards

- 25-hour battery life on 4 AA batteries

- Optical and analog inputs and outputs

- 13.9 ounces

 

(Don't plan to use its internal headphone amp - use a Line Out to external amp.)

 

Available January 2014

 

Tick, tock, tick, tock....

post #396 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple View Post
 

Excellent thread DF.So its this or the Tera(if it halves lol)DF try and get your hands on the Tera  to compare as i respect your views.

 

Both are very good player but I personally like the AK120 better than the Tera. After having my unit modded they aren't even comparable anymore. :P. I have a Tera with me on loan. I listened to it for about 5 or more hours. Haven't touched it since.....


Edited by lee730 - 12/9/13 at 10:38pm
post #397 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post
 

 

Both are very good player but I personally like the AK120 better than the Tera. After having my unit modded they aren't even comparable anymore. :P. I have a Tera with me on loan. I listened to it for about 5 or more hours. Haven't touched it since.....

 

Settle the epic debate once and for all.....what is better, the Tera Player or the Clip+? :veryevil:

post #398 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarr112281 View Post
 

 

 

How reassuring to know that one need only spend a minimum of at least $700 for a reliable, good-sounding DAP that works properly. :rolleyes:

Well, $200 actually.

 

I've owned a few of these "so called audiophile daps" and all in all, the experience has been fine. There have been some minor niggles, but nothing worth getting all hysterical about like some of the members on here tend to.
 
I dont doubt some people have had serious headaches with their units, but the measure of the company to me is how does the company deal with the issues? Based on the forums, it seems the companies are quick to respond and resolve issues. 

 

IMO a lot of the software type issues seem to be related to those coming from ipods\macs. I have never used apple products and have always kept things simple - rip to flac - attach max 500K image - store in Folder<Artist - Album> and then usb copy over to player and play via folder or album....sorted!

 

These small companies don't have the resources to develop and endlessly test and iron out the bugs. They have an imperative to get the product to market asap and release some of their invested capital. Therefore, they do have to rely on the early adopters to beta test for them. Should be it be like this? No...but thats how it is! 

 

Maybe they should have beta programme and offer the product at a reduced price to those testers.

 

Until the big names bother to venture into this market, you either accept this is the way it is with these small niche companies or simply dont buy the product and stick to the big names.


No one is forcing you to spend your money with these companies.

post #399 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Is the S mod through Red Wine Audio?

Yep.
And then this popped up. XD
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

I've put my ZX1 through probably close to 20 hrs burn in and I think I'm ready to sell my AK120. The ZX1 seemed to have opened up in the the mids and highs more. It's not as warm as when I first had it. Listening to the Tumbao De Tamorito track from Open Your Ears album the space just opens up more & gives a more front row presentation whilst the AK120 is probably just a few rows behind.

With my MH335DW the bass seems a little more comparable between the two though which was different from my earlier findings (at least with the Open Your Ears album). I may try different tracks .

So anyone up for an AK120, ping me biggrin.gif.
post #400 of 1453
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryten123 View Post
 

Well, $200 actually.

 

I've owned a few of these "so called audiophile daps" and all in all, the experience has been fine. There have been some minor niggles, but nothing worth getting all hysterical about like some of the members on here tend to.
 
I dont doubt some people have had serious headaches with their units, but the measure of the company to me is how does the company deal with the issues? Based on the forums, it seems the companies are quick to respond and resolve issues. 

 

IMO a lot of the software type issues seem to be related to those coming from ipods\macs. I have never used apple products and have always kept things simple - rip to flac - attach max 500K image - store in Folder<Artist - Album> and then usb copy over to player and play via folder or album....sorted!

 

These small companies don't have the resources to develop and endlessly test and iron out the bugs. They have an imperative to get the product to market asap and release some of their invested capital. Therefore, they do have to rely on the early adopters to beta test for them. Should be it be like this? No...but thats how it is! 

 

Maybe they should have beta programme and offer the product at a reduced price to those testers.

 

Until the big names bother to venture into this market, you either accept this is the way it is with these small niche companies or simply dont buy the product and stick to the big names.


No one is forcing you to spend your money with these companies.

 

 

My friend you're not understanding why I created this thread for. You, me nor anyone else should have to accept badly implemented products that run like crap. Coming from an Apple ecosystem has nothing to do with it when the audiophile player is constantly freezing up and the files on the SDCard isn't fully populated. When bugs like that happen it has nothing to do with the end user being accustomed to using iPods but has everything to do with poor OS implementation on the manufacturers end. I've scrubbed my files spic and span clean and have recoded everything into multiple file formats to try and get the files populated into my DX50 and to date it still refuses to fully scan my files. My Studio V player and my AK120 fully scans those files without a hitch which means the problem lies with bad coding in the DX50's OS. You are correct in stating that nobody has forced me or anyone else to spend our monies with these companies products BUT when these same companies advertise a fully working player me and others as consumers expect the product to at least function within usable parameters and not be forced to spend 4 evenings trying to troubleshoot a product that has been poorly implemented. Me nor anyone else is asking these companies to reinvent the wheel. What we're all saying is these companies should be held accountable for their actions. If iBasso had held back a few short weeks before release most of these OS problems wouldn't have happened. Also, brand loyalists can rant from here to eternity concerning how great they think a product is, in the end the vast majority of consumers will eventually realize how flawed a product is and will eventually turn their backs on the manufacturer who created it. These boards are littered with old dead threads full of posts from raving brand apologists and they've long been dead for a reason, people realized how half baked the product really is.

 

Welcome to our thread, we're an ornery but fun loving bunch in here. Please pull up a chair and join us in general discussion on DAP's.

post #401 of 1453

It seems I cant "Quote" from my work browser....so in reply to DigitalFreak above

 

I agree we shouldn't have to accept badly implemented products, but half baked products seem to be the nature of this game. Its not right that consumers should have to mess about getting the unit to work as expected, but it just seems to be the way it is. In fact even the big boys release products that don't work properly from the off - look at Microsoft.

 

I don't doubt you had some major headaches, but of the thousands of DX50s shipped how many users have actually experienced anything other than minor niggles while the bugs were being ironed out by software updates?.

 

Yes the code is p**s poor, but was that the cause of your specific issues?

Why do my cards\music work OK? 

 

iBasso should definitely have held off a few weeks and gone through a beta testing process and maybe the launch of the DX50 would have been less problematic. Only time will tell whether consumers will put up with beta testing future products. Considering they are selling to a niche market mainly interested in SQ, I think people will put up with it if it delivers the SQ...until the rival manufacturers get it right.

 

I'd like to know how many people that were having "major" headaches were coming from apple products - I'd put money on a large percentage.

 

I'm no fan boy or apologist for any manufacturer....maybe just more forgiving of idiosyncrasies, so long as the device delivers its primary function.

post #402 of 1453
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryten123 View Post

It seems I cant "Quote" from my work browser....so in reply to DigitalFreak above

I agree we shouldn't have to accept badly implemented products, but half baked products seem to be the nature of this game. Its not right that consumers should have to mess about getting the unit to work as expected, but it just seems to be the way it is. In fact even the big boys release products that don't work properly from the off - look at Microsoft.

I don't doubt you had some major headaches, but of the thousands of DX50s shipped how many users have actually experienced anything other than minor niggles while the bugs were being ironed out by software updates?.

Yes the code is p**s poor, but was that the cause of your specific issues?
Why do my cards\music work OK? 

iBasso should definitely have held off a few weeks and gone through a beta testing process and maybe the launch of the DX50 would have been less problematic. Only time will tell whether consumers will put up with beta testing future products. Considering they are selling to a niche market mainly interested in SQ, I think people will put up with it if it delivers the SQ...until the rival manufacturers get it right.

I'd like to know how many people that were having "major" headaches were coming from apple products - I'd put money on a large percentage.

I'm no fan boy or apologist for any manufacturer....maybe just more forgiving of idiosyncrasies, so long as the device delivers its primary function.

So if it's the norm we should all just shut up and take it even though we know the implementation is garbage..sorry such an attitude is unacceptable to me. If your DX50 works with little to no problem then you're the lucky few. There's been enough people complaining about the DX50 on the impressions thread an quite a few more in private. I can't understand your reasoning behind that kind of thinking nor can I understand the infatuation you seem to have with people who use iPods. Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree.
post #403 of 1453

So if it's the norm we should all just shut up and take it even though we know the implementation is garbage..sorry such an attitude is unacceptable to me. If your DX50 works with little to no problem then you're the lucky few. There's been enough people complaining about the DX50 on the impressions thread an quite a few more in private. I can't understand your reasoning behind that kind of thinking nor can I understand the infatuation you seem to have with people who use iPods. Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

 

I'm not saying shut up and take it. Sure, let the manufacturer and other users\potential buyers know of bugs, so people know what they are getting into and can make an informed decision. Buying a product knowing about the potential issues and then whinging about them is pointless.

 

Unless I have been blessed by iBasso, I would guess that there are also a lot of other people out there that have little to no issues with their units.

 

I don't have an infatuation with ipod users. It seems, just based on what I've read here, that apple inserts all sorts of junk into file\folders\tags which after cleaned up seems to fix people's issues... is this acceptable? No...but it is what it is.

 

What I'm saying is, we all know the score with these products, either buy or don't.

...or don't be a beta tester and wait until all the bugs are ironed out by others, who can take the bugs in their stride.

post #404 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achmedisdead View Post
 

 

Settle the epic debate once and for all.....what is better, the Tera Player or the Clip+? :veryevil:

 

Of course the Tera player is the better sounding player :P. I'd take it any day over the clip based just on the sound quality. But that also depends on the pairing as it can be problematic on BA IEMs. I have no plans on purchasing one though.... I did have second thoughts though when I tried it on the SE5. But I doubt I'll go down that path anytime soon.

post #405 of 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post
 

 

Both are very good player but I personally like the AK120 better than the Tera. After having my unit modded they aren't even comparable anymore. :P. I have a Tera with me on loan. I listened to it for about 5 or more hours. Haven't touched it since.....

 

This is literally the first time I've read someone saying they prefer the SQ of some other DAP over that of the Tera Player.  I'm ignorant of the Tera SQ, personally, but I find your statement to be very credible, just for how you are putting something, anything, ahead of the Tera.   The modded AK120 must be special...

 

:D

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