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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 87

post #1291 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

Beg to differ.  It seems from recent insider rumour that Apple are considering high-res downloads, which would mean an upgrade to their current devices to accommodate it.  I personally think this would be a step in the right direction.  So it seems they do care.

 

I'd also disagree with your comment that their devices are audibly inferior.  That's not what I hear (or is measured) on the recent iPhones or iPod touches.  Properly conducted listening tests would be interesting I think.  But this will come down to a difference of opinion - that neither of us can objectively prove unless we could organise an independent, peer reviewed test.  Can't see that happening at this stage.  If Apple came out with an iPhone 6 capable of playing up to 24/96 (I'm OK with aac256 - but others will want higher), with 128-256 Gb onboard memory, and the ability to buy decent lossless masters via iTunes, I seriously doubt that I (or a lot of others) would look further to boutique DAPs.  Even if the onboard amp was a little weak - if you could get a clean line-out to an add on amp, I'd just add an Arrow (for full sized cans) and call it a day ;).

 

I know we'll disagree on this Mak - but I do genuinely see Apple looking seriously at the demand for higher quality (and lossless) music.

Oh I agree that they are looking at the demand of High Res, I just don't think they'll push it through their pre existing product line, I'm not saying the apple devices sound bad, but they are focused more on portable use than end of the line sound quality, for example I carry full size cans around with an external amplifier, I doubt Apple is marketing to people like me, rather I think they will focus highly on the users who want a simpler product, all in ones. I would think they would use the pre existing "beats" marketing to push that line, then there are the other customers who aren't as interested in hi fideility, people who are content with the Apple Ear Buds, 

 

my point being is when we look at companies like iBasso and Hifiman, they are leaning more towards [well in the past] fideility over portability, they may countinue down that path, and if they do they will hold a large share of the market of users who want those end game hi fidelity players, where as I think Apple has placed them selvs in a good spot to have some control over those who seek better All in One Solutions, and most consumers fall into the all in one category.

 

Point being I don't think Apple is aiming at Summit Fi, the crazy nuts here who carry around the Hugo Dac to play their DSD, [heck I'm almost half way to Summit Fi my self] I do how ever thing Apple is going to hold a huge share of the "Mid Fi" market, and within that market there is a big want for the capacity to play High Res, Brooko follow me on the thread dedicated to Apples purchase of beats, Apple imo won't ever make an "audiophile dap" in the sense that it will be purely for music play back, when I think of audiophile DAPS they ONLY thing they do is sound good, the HM801 is a perfect example, the ui sucks, the battery life is a joke but it sounds great! The sound quality is TOP priority, that to me makes it a audiophile dap, before anything ELSE it sounds good

 

Apple, won't ever place audio as priority number one, their customers don't want that. But I do think they will start to place a greater importance on the sound quality, as the majority of users desire better sounding gear, Apple will provide it. But they most likely won't ever make anything on the level of the HM901 or the AK 240, they have no need to, in stead they'll combine the performance of something like teh Fiio X5 with the useability of the iPhone, 

 

but I think the Botique players will still have a place, I'm not a fan of paying for all the "extras" that an iPad or iPhone can do, I want a device 100% dedicated to sound quality, and I've not heard the new Apple Products, how ever I state that they are inferior in that an iPhone 5 is about $649 [that's no contract, unlocked and with 16gb onBoard] for $649 your can get a new Hifiman HM802 that will most likely sound better, As an all in one device, the Apple Products are very good, and will continue to get better, how ever as a dedicated DAP they are a bad buy and I don't think that will change

 

but again, there's is now a big push for High Res capability within "all in one" devices, and that market Apple will most like dominate, the newer efficent Hifiman Headphones, and the new AKG k812 are evidance of this, even the new Audeze headphones are more efficent, but the market for a dedicated DAP is not something apple cares to venture into, the market for TOTL end of the line BEST sound is not something Apple cares to venture into, instead they focus on the much larger market of people who want their Phone to also serve as a good music host, and I think that's a smart move on their part :3

 

BUT as for me, I don't like my cell phone also hosting my music, the battery already dies in like 2 hours and I do a lot of buisness on my phone, I'd hate to be listening to music and hear the pings from texts and new emails, hence forth I keep my phone and DAP seperate, but for the people who want it all in ONE device, I think Apples in a good position to dominate that market 

post #1292 of 1307

:)

 

You went from talking about Apple not being interested in the audiophile market to Apple not being interested in summit-fi (a bit of a change of tack).  I agree with the summit-fi assumption. But just remember that there are a lot of serious music lovers out there who may well class themselves as audiophiles that aren't interested in summit-fi either.

 

Personally I'll never look at an AK240 or HM8/9xx series simply because of the price.  And you know how much I love my music :D.  I'd love to only carry one device.  Like I said - increase the storage and make high-res playback possible, and I'd think that they'll get considerably more sales.

 

I mean - go back a few years - the Classic 5.5 was considered an audiophile device/choice ........

post #1293 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

:)

 

You went from talking about Apple not being interested in the audiophile market to Apple not being interested in summit-fi (a bit of a change of tack).  I agree with the summit-fi assumption. But just remember that there are a lot of serious music lovers out there who may well class themselves as audiophiles that aren't interested in summit-fi either.

 

Personally I'll never look at an AK240 or HM8/9xx series simply because of the price.  And you know how much I love my music :D.  I'd love to only carry one device.  Like I said - increase the storage and make high-res playback possible, and I'd think that they'll get considerably more sales.

 

I mean - go back a few years - the Classic 5.5 was considered an audiophile device/choice ........

well when I think "audio phile market" I assume it's Summit fit, as most of the Botique shops have... Summit Fi Gear as the TOTL, iBasso, Hifiman, Fiio [is getting one soon] A&K, the biggest botique guys have Summit DAPS,

 

And yea it kind was, I think 5 Years back the hm801 was still up there though :D  

post #1294 of 1307
Thread Starter 

Since everyone is talking Apple.....

 

post #1295 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

:)

 

You went from talking about Apple not being interested in the audiophile market to Apple not being interested in summit-fi (a bit of a change of tack).  I agree with the summit-fi assumption. But just remember that there are a lot of serious music lovers out there who may well class themselves as audiophiles that aren't interested in summit-fi either.

 

Personally I'll never look at an AK240 or HM8/9xx series simply because of the price.  And you know how much I love my music :D.  I'd love to only carry one device.  Like I said - increase the storage and make high-res playback possible, and I'd think that they'll get considerably more sales.

 

I mean - go back a few years - the Classic 5.5 was considered an audiophile device/choice ........

 

You never know Brooko. This place might make you go down that path and your wallet will really be brooko ;)...

post #1296 of 1307

Am I the only one around here who hates Apple's ecosystem, their terms and their UI? Especially their UI is just driving me crazy, I can't understand how people find it useful.

 

Working fast, doesn't get frozen, no lag, nice animations. All true, I agree.

 

However, to browse your files, it is just unbelievably disgusting to me. Don't sort the files in your way, let me handle my s**t and you just play it. But no, it is Apple, of course it will tell you to obey their rules.

post #1297 of 1307

You're not alone. I feel the exact same way and I own an apple product. Not planning on buying another one though.

post #1298 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post
 

You're not alone. I feel the exact same way and I own an apple product. Not planning on buying another one though.


Rockbox'ing them helps a lot though :beerchug: Good to see that I am not alone, once again Lee manages to save the day :tongue_smile:

post #1299 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post
 

You never know Brooko. This place might make you go down that path and your wallet will really be brooko ;)...

Let's just say it'll be pretty unlikely mate ;).   I'm pretty covered with what I have - don't think my imperfect ears would appreciate any difference anyway.

post #1300 of 1307
I just got an ipad mini and i installed many apps just to transfer a pdf file so that i can read magazine...i thought this is what people use ipad for...samsung/sony tablets r a lot easier to use.. LoL
post #1301 of 1307
Well, maybe because the only other kind of mobile devices I've used were a zune, kindle fire hdx, and some old samsung phone, but those had god awful ui. I've enjoyed ios, and would always prefer it to that of the os of these current daps, I guess it's kind an unfair comparison, the ui of the classic is kind of weak, and the nano is touch screen now.

So oh well. Anyway though, I much prefer itunes than dealing with a folder file, it's far easier to work with itunes and custom syncing.
post #1302 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

Am I the only one around here who hates Apple's ecosystem, their terms and their UI? Especially their UI is just driving me crazy, I can't understand how people find it useful.

 

Working fast, doesn't get frozen, no lag, nice animations. All true, I agree.

 

However, to browse your files, it is just unbelievably disgusting to me. Don't sort the files in your way, let me handle my s**t and you just play it. But no, it is Apple, of course it will tell you to obey their rules.

that point is why ppl either LOVE or hate Apple, some of us want to handle our own buisness, some of us want something to do that for us

 

I don't Hate apple... but I'll never own another apple Product outside the iPod nano [Gen 3] that I got for free once... they make a great product but... well it's not for me :3

 

But yea, you either love Apple for it's simplicity, or hate it for it's micro managed UI and "terms" 

post #1303 of 1307

As this long thread has come to an Apple pause I want to ask you a related question: I am using an Ipod classic 5th with a Fostex hp-p1, with NAD Viso headphones. Quite happy about the sound although portability is not at its best. I seem to understand that a non amped Ipod fares pretty badly compared to new DAP such as the FIIO X5 or higher. Having not had the chance to hear them, I was wondering whether the same would applied to an amped Ipod as in my case paired with a Fostex.

Putting things differently: can I expect a significant improve in SQ by replacing the Ipod classic + Fostex with a self standing DAP such as the FIIO X5 or Ibasso xd90?

post #1304 of 1307

Even if you "only" use the line out of your Ipod to an amp, you will have a decent soundquality that is nearly on par with the more expensive DAPs out there. If nearly is good enough for you is a decision that you need to make yourself....

post #1305 of 1307

This I would not doubt. But my question was slightly different: what would be, supposedly, the advance in QS by shifting from a Ipod classic + Fostex hp-p1 to a non amped DAP in the range of the Fiio x5?

Because I can see the advantages in terms of transportability, but without testing I have no clue in terms of QS.

Now, by "good enough" I mean a difference that a  human with a quite long experience with hi-fi gear can perceive  without having to set up a complex experimental setting like the ones are usually required when you want to compare DACs, for example.

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