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The Sad State Of The So Called Audiophile DAP Market - Page 68

post #1006 of 1307

Thanks H20.  When you guys compare - are you volume matching the output with an SPL meter?  I've been doing the recently for any reviews I'm doing - and noticing that perceived differences suddenly get a lot smaller ....

 

I just wish I had an O-scope to also use in a comparison.  Would be nice to see how two different DAPs actually measure (freq) from 20-20K under the same load.


Edited by Brooko - 3/9/14 at 3:01am
post #1007 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

Thanks H20.  When you guys compare - are you volume matching the output with an SPL meter?  I've been doing the recently for any reviews I'm doing - and noticing that perceived differences suddenly get a lot smaller ....

 

I just wish I had an O-scope to also use in a comparison.  Would be nice to see how two different DAPs actually measure (freq) from 20-20K under the same load.


No, I am not volume matching, I use a moderate volume level just by ear, plus using the device for extended time while laying down. Most of my listening sessions are done in a ritual fashion while laying down, often late at night. I can see where you're coming from though with the matched volumes. I often think if you A/B two players at quite low volume it would be much harder to pick them apart, there's a certain amount of volume you need to hit for the detail and dynamics to kick in. Just my theory.

post #1008 of 1307

Thanks anyway - just trying to understand this a little more.

post #1009 of 1307
Brooko how DARE you bring science and objectivity in here! A daps sound staging is measured by how much airiness it leaves in your wallet!
post #1010 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach-X View Post

by how much airiness it leaves in your wallet!

 

LOL, this made me laugh more than it should've

post #1011 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachchen1996 View Post
 

 

LOL, this made me laugh more than it should've

 

I'm sure you're laughing yourself listening to your NT6 Pro and expensive DAP with a great big smile that is ;)... Jealousy is an ugly thing isn't it? :D.

 

@ brooko, when I speak of imaging it goes hand in hand with separation. A DAP or source with very good imaging is usually a good source even @ low volume levels. The Studio 3rd ANV is very good at imaging and detail extraction at extremely low volumes. You get all the detail even at volume 2.


When I refer to sound staging it not only pertains to the track although the tracks plays a huge part in it. The Studio makes everything sound more vast and that is in part due to the treble. But it is not just due to the treble. The overall sound is of a lighter nature and when you combine the powerful imaging and the high separation it all contributes to it. Hisound players generally make music sound dynamic and open. Makes music sound more refined. Its all in the implementation. Their amp sections are something else besides the hiss flaws.

 

To go into a bit more detail for you, the X5 has a decent sound stage. But it isn't very wide. It's focus is more on depth. It can/will change somewhat based on the IEM/headphone pairing you use. But using an IEM that is along the lines of neutral can help you to better gauge that. I find the X5s sound staging capabilities to be more in line with how my SE5s portray their own sound staging. Not very wide but lot of depth and due to this a very 3D sound.

 

While on the 3rd ANV the staging is quite wide, airy. It's got a reasonable amount of depth but it's definitely lacking in depth compared to its width.


Edited by lee730 - 3/9/14 at 10:45am
post #1012 of 1307
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by highfell View Post


We'll agree to disagree then. The DX50 does sound good not just to me but many others. The AK120 isn't a fair comparison given the 8 times higher price.

The Studio V is though. I hadn't heard of that one. It has some very good reviews. Interesting. Hissing into CEMs could be a problem for me but nevertheless it would appear to be a good comparator against which to judge the DX50, and I would I like to see more (given your history of negative comments about the DX50, I think your comparison might not be totally objective -smily_headphones1.gif )

I'm not saying it doesn't sound acceptably good for its price. What I'm saying is it doesn't come anywhere close to being the giant killer some people make it out to be. It sounds slightly better then my iPod Classic and my iPod Touch. Is it a decent step forward compared to those? Yes it is. I'm with H2O concerning how I can't help but wonder what some of the people who give rave reviews to the DX50 have heard in the past. I have checked the profiles of some of these ravers and, most of the time, have either run across a completely blank profile or a profile with a low end Fiio amp or a smartphone as their past gear experience. One early raver I recognized from a few months ago as a fellow who started a thread asking for headphone recommendations. His criteria for a headphone, "I want to hear the music exactly as it was recorded but I also want plenty-o-bass". (Rolls eyes) You can buy yourself a headphone that plays the music exactly as it was recorded (neutral) or you can buy yourself a bassy headphone. You can't have both. As for me bringing the AK player into the argument, I mentioned the AK player only because there's been person after person who state the DX50 sounds so great to their ears it must beat out the AK players. It doesn't, an I can state that as an absolute because I have heard both side by side due to the fact I own both. They don't own both and have not heard both and shouldn't be stating that. As for my objectivity, if its a mutt I'm gonna call it a mutt and feed it dog food and keep the steak for myself. If people have a problem with me calling it a mutt, oh well. That's just to bad for them. Why should I care? If you decide I'm not being objective because my findings of it being a mutt doesn't match up with your findings of it being a purebred, oh well. Why should I care what someone living somewhere in Twobucktoo I've never met and probably never will thinks? :happy_face1: 


Edited by DigitalFreak - 3/9/14 at 11:47am
post #1013 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarr112281 View Post
 

 

Oh, dear--that stinks. I'm considering getting an iPhone eventually, perhaps as my next phone. I don't intend to use it as a DAP, but the comments about the iPod Touch have stirred my curiosity. Unfortunately, the iPod uses the same OS as the iPhone! Let's hope iOS version 7.1 fixes the problem.

 

 

Yes, I'd be interested in your opinion of the X5.

The i phone 4s has a very good sound and Rudi backs that up(so it must be good lol)Ive previously checked the touch(may be old model)1st 2nd and 4th gen nanos and the sound straight out aint that good.I love the 1st gen shuffle for portable use.I would try the i phone 4.Im not sure what the 5 model is like. 

post #1014 of 1307
To me, soundstage is how deep and how wide the instruments span in your head if you close your eyes. Sure, the soundstage also depends on the recording (binaural recordings for example typically have a very realistic-sounding soundstage), but the DAP also affects it.


With DAP A, the guitar in beginning Ottmar Liebert's "Carrousel" song from his Up Close can sound a few feet behind your left ear whereas in DAP B, the guitar can sound closer to your ear (a soundstage with less depth).

DAP A:
(_space_)[head]

[guitar]



DAP B:
(_space_)[head]
[guitar]


The recording hasn't changed at all, but where the instruments are relative to your head has changed. Imaging to me is the placement of instruments in your head within the soundstage. The two terms aren't necessarily correlated. A very large soundstage can sound weird, thus having poor imaging, which is what happens to me with the AKG K 701.


Instrument separation to me is how well-defined an instrument is. Does the guitar sound like its own instrument, or is it blended in with some of the other instruments?
Edited by miceblue - 3/9/14 at 1:04pm
post #1015 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

To me, soundstage is how deep and how wide the instruments span in your head if you close your eyes. Sure, the soundstage also depends on the recording (binaural recordings for example typically have a very realistic-sounding soundstage), but the DAP also affects it.


With DAP A, the guitar in beginning Ottmar Liebert's "Carrousel" song from his Up Close can sound a few feet behind your left ear whereas in DAP B, the guitar can sound closer to your ear (a soundstage with less depth).

DAP A:
(_space_)[head]

[guitar]



DAP B:
(_space_)[head]
[guitar]


The recording hasn't changed at all, but where the instruments are relative to your head has changed. Imaging to me is the placement of instruments in your head within the soundstage. The two terms aren't necessarily correlated. A very large soundstage can sound weird, thus having poor imaging, which is what happens to me with the AKG K 701.


Instrument separation to me is how well-defined an instrument is. Does the guitar sound like its own instrument, or is it blended in with some of the other instruments?

 

You'd be surprised how much of this comes from volume levels. I've been A/B'ing players with my ASG-2 equipped with that voodoo-infused Tralucent Silver/Gold cable, and it's remarkable how volume changes affect what you hear in the DAP world where differences are already so miniscule.

post #1016 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

You'd be surprised how much of this comes from volume levels. I've been A/B'ing players with my ASG-2 equipped with that voodoo-infused Tralucent Silver/Gold cable, and it's remarkable how volume changes affect what you hear in the DAP world where differences are already so miniscule.
So are you suggesting that all DAPs reproduce the soundstage exactly the same? I'll be A/B-ing the iPod 5G and 6G today with a friend using a FiiO HS2 box.
post #1017 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


So are you suggesting that all DAPs reproduce the soundstage exactly the same? I'll be A/B-ing the iPod 5G and 6G today with a friend using a FiiO HS2 box.

 

Not quite. What I'm saying is that, from my experience, the quality of the recording is so much more important. Since moving up the tiers to more revealing phones, I'm finding recordings to supercede almost all else apart from headphone quality.

post #1018 of 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by H20Fidelity View Post

That's been going on since the release date, whenever someone mentions an issue a series of posts after try to protect the player like the crown jewels are being compromised. Seriously part of the reason why I sold it.

H20, you will hate me for saying this but i was very lucky with dx50 having no freeze no issues so far.
still i put dx50 nearly brand new with silicon case on sale. you know why? because dx50 needs amp to sound its best and without amping it sounds edgy digital and not so well controlled. yes, dx50 for the money is a great DAP and will excel over C3 but for the price plus amp i better stick to something else. iBasso must seriously revamp the amp section, and their lazy approach to this put me off from their products in future. i cannot live with audiophile DAP which does not do like that and for 250$ i can expect more ... C3 on its own is bloody cheap so i can live with shortcomings but going up price some better attitude must be shown.
post #1019 of 1307
Well I can't really hear a difference between these....
XD







post #1020 of 1307

I could hear differences between the iphone4, Sansa fuze and my room mates classic. Not necessarily night and day differences but those subtleties are their to be heard nonetheless. Even the new Fuze sounded slightly different from the original one. I preferred its sound but the UI was ****.


Edited by lee730 - 3/9/14 at 3:02pm
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