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post #901 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

I honestly don't care about soundstaging either, but I have to admit these are a little "claustrophobic" sounding. So if staging is even a little important for you, then these probably won't be a great experience. Peronsally, I have no issues with the soundstaging of the 7520, but would put that caveat out there for people just in case.

 

Honestly, my ears have been trained by the SE530, which was my first mid-fi to hi-fi headphone/IEM. Been listening to those for 4-5 years now. And the 7520 is my second good quality headphone purchase ever. I did test out a lot of other models before settling on the 7520. But for me that means that I don't really notice the 7520 sounding claustrophobic, as frankly that's what my ears are used to with the SE530 which also isn't known for it's soundstage :)

 

So I guess it's also what you're used to. People who are always listening to open headphones might find the contrast too large with the 7520, I suppose. 

post #902 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post
 

 

Honestly, my ears have been trained by the SE530, which was my first mid-fi to hi-fi headphone/IEM. Been listening to those for 4-5 years now. And the 7520 is my second good quality headphone purchase ever. I did test out a lot of other models before settling on the 7520. But for me that means that I don't really notice the 7520 sounding claustrophobic, as frankly that's what my ears are used to with the SE530 which also isn't known for it's soundstage :)

 

So I guess it's also what you're used to. People who are always listening to open headphones might find the contrast too large with the 7520, I suppose. 


Hey and you and I started from the same place! My journey began when I demo'ed a pair of SE530s at a audio shop in 2006. I then bought the SE530 a few months later, after agnoizing over the price for a few months. I then added the Tripel-Fi 10 and Westone 3 and I was in heaven with my Sony Walkman. Haha. I was perfectly happy with it until about 2010, when I decided that I did not like sticking things in my ears all the time and wanted a headphone that could substitute the SE530. I had no idea that headphones could sound even better than the 530. Haha.

 

I think my first open backed headphone was the Q701, and that had a massive impressive soundstaging and my jaw was on the floor (driven from a Fiio stack). A few months in, I decided that soundstaging is "neat", but not really necessary for me to enjoy my music. I think imaging (placement of vocals, instruments are somewhat important), but depth, width, height of the stage I really don't care about too much. It's nice if it's there, but honestly don't need it.

 

For what its worth the Z1000 is even worse when it comes to staging. Makes the 7520 sound spacious. LOL.

post #903 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 


Hey and you and I started from the same place! My journey began when I demo'ed a pair of SE530s at a audio shop in 2006. I then bought the SE530 a few months later, after agnoizing over the price for a few months. I then added the Tripel-Fi 10 and Westone 3 and I was in heaven with my Sony Walkman. Haha. I was perfectly happy with it until about 2010, when I decided that I did not like sticking things in my ears all the time and wanted a headphone that could substitute the SE530. I had no idea that headphones could sound even better than the 530. Haha.

 

I think my first open backed headphone was the Q701, and that had a massive impressive soundstaging and my jaw was on the floor (driven from a Fiio stack). A few months in, I decided that soundstaging is "neat", but not really necessary for me to enjoy my music. I think imaging (placement of vocals, instruments are somewhat important), but depth, width, height of the stage I really don't care about too much. It's nice if it's there, but honestly don't need it.

 

For what its worth the Z1000 is even worse when it comes to staging. Makes the 7520 sound spacious. LOL.

I second that. I briefly had the Z1000 and pretty much returned it the next day because in pretty much every way the 7520 sounded better to me, inluding soundstage.

 

And honestly, now that I think about it, my first pair of reasonable quality IEMs was the Shure SE110 (or was it SE100? I don't remember anymore). I think that's a single BA IEM (vs. the triple BA in the SE530). It was a big step up from what I was used to ($25 Sony/Philips IEMs, crappy stuff, but I didn't know any better at the time). And then going from the SE110 to the SE530 was another big step, although in terms of SQ a relatively smaller step than when I went from crap to the SE110.

 

Speaking of IEMs, right now I'm test driving the RE-400 and tomorrow I should receive the Yamaha EPH-100. Am looking to replace my SE530, the cable shielding has a tear in it, so I don't expect it to last much longer (and I secretly want to have a somewhat different sound signature while commuting, after all these years, so this was a good excuse). The RE-400 is quite impressive for the price, although I think I'd prefer it to be slightly warmer. The Yammies might just be what I'm looking for. But otherwise, the RE-400 is quite nice, quite detailed and good extension in the lows and highs. Amazing that it's all coming from a 100 buck IEM.


Edited by starfly - 2/7/14 at 2:51pm
post #904 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post
 

I second that. I briefly had the Z1000 and pretty much returned it the next day because in pretty much every way the 7520 sounded better to me, inluding soundstage.

 

And honestly, now that I think about it, my first pair of reasonable quality IEMs was the Shure SE110 (or was it SE100? I don't remember anymore). I think that's a single BA IEM (vs. the triple BA in the SE530). It was a big step up from what I was used to ($25 Sony/Philips IEMs, crappy stuff, but I didn't know any better at the time). And then going from the SE110 to the SE530 was another big step, although in terms of SQ a relatively smaller step than when I went from crap to the SE110.

 

Speaking of IEMs, right now I'm test driving the RE-400 and tomorrow I should receive the Yamaha EPH-100. Am looking to replace my SE530, the cable shielding has a tear in it, so I don't expect it to last much longer (and I secretly want to have a somewhat different sound signature while commuting, after all these years, so this was a good excuse). The RE-400 is quite impressive for the price, although I think I'd prefer it to be slightly warmer. The Yammies might just be what I'm looking for. But otherwise, the RE-400 is quite nice, quite detailed and good extension in the lows and highs. Amazing that it's all coming from a 100 buck IEM.

If you are looking to match the 7520 signature sound I could advise you to get the GR07be, almost the same sig, a tad mid bass hump on the Vsonic giving male vocals more authority but tastefully done and a ~1-2db down around 7-8kh low trebble. almost equally detailed IMO.

Great for commuting as the tiny bass hump compensate for the lost bass perception in noisy environment. 

very tight sounding IEM overall.The only downside is that on some track the vsonic mids might appear a tiny bit behind the all FR (like 97% perceived vol for the mids and 100% for the rest FR). Also they do need at least 130h of burn-in to get the best out of them.

post #905 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceMajeure View Post
 Also they do need at least 130h of burn-in to get the best out of them.

That kind of sounds like the 7520. Haha. :k701smile:

post #906 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

That kind of sounds like the 7520. Haha. :k701smile:

Actually to me the 7520 was sounding good after 30h continuous burn-in with a mix of pink and white noise and the change sonically was more subtle than I thought it would be, tightened bass which led to a tiny bit less perception of the trebble

But the Vsonic is the only phones that I can say  burn-in as an actual effect on.they REALLY started to shine after the 130hr mark, it was like they got to the next level...:blink:

 

Buy the way I'm also waiting for your impressions on the k812, :popcorn: 


Edited by ForceMajeure - 2/7/14 at 3:29pm
post #907 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceMajeure View Post

Buy the way I'm also waiting for your impressions on the k812, :popcorn: 


Check the K812 thread... I'm about make an update to my situation...

post #908 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceMajeure View Post
 

If you are looking to match the 7520 signature sound I could advise you to get the GR07be, almost the same sig, a tad mid bass hump on the Vsonic giving male vocals more authority but tastefully done and a ~1-2db down around 7-8kh low trebble. almost equally detailed IMO.

Great for commuting as the tiny bass hump compensate for the lost bass perception in noisy environment. 

very tight sounding IEM overall.The only downside is that on some track the vsonic mids might appear a tiny bit behind the all FR (like 97% perceived vol for the mids and 100% for the rest FR). Also they do need at least 130h of burn-in to get the best out of them.

Thanks. I was actually looking for those, but they are hard to find here in the Netherlands. Only one store I could find that sells them, and they didn't have them in stock. And most other stores in other countries don't seem to have them in stock either. And sure, I could wait, if it weren't for the fact that I'll soon be moving to a different country so I want to get this IEM thing out of the way asap. And also, I don't necessarily need my IEMs to sound like the 7520, it's nice to have something with a different sound signature, for the sake of variation :)

 

And I did read that the GR07 doesn't isolate as well as other IEMs, and isolation is very important to me. When I'm commuting I don't really want to hear anything else around me except for the music. And then I can also use them on airplanes to keep out most of the engine noise.

 

But man, this RE-400 has some sweet mids. Instruments really shine through these little IEMs. Really curious to find out what the EPH-100 sounds like. I'm still amazed that they only cost a 100 bucks. They're easily worth double the price.


Edited by starfly - 2/7/14 at 3:38pm
post #909 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceMajeure View Post
 

If you are looking to match the 7520 signature sound I could advise you to get the GR07be, almost the same sig, a tad mid bass hump on the Vsonic giving male vocals more authority but tastefully done and a ~1-2db down around 7-8kh low trebble. almost equally detailed IMO.

Great for commuting as the tiny bass hump compensate for the lost bass perception in noisy environment. 

very tight sounding IEM overall.The only downside is that on some track the vsonic mids might appear a tiny bit behind the all FR (like 97% perceived vol for the mids and 100% for the rest FR). Also they do need at least 130h of burn-in to get the best out of them.

 

Whaaaaaaaat?  Really?  I was just perusing this thread because Sony interests me as a company, not really even thinking about the 7520...and then I read this.  Holy smokes.  Seriously?  I love my GR07BEs and I've been on the neverending search to find the over ear equivalent.  Are they really that close?  If so, I'm buying one immediately.

post #910 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 


Check the K812 thread... I'm about make an update to my situation...

Just enough time to pour me a beer :beerchug:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post
 

Thanks. I was actually looking for those, but they are hard to find here in the Netherlands. Only one store I could find that sells them, and they didn't have them in stock. And most other stores in other countries don't seem to have them in stock either. And sure, I could wait, if it weren't for the fact that I'll soon be moving to a different country so I want to get this IEM think out of the way asap. And also, I don't necessarily need my IEMs to sound like the 7520, it's nice to have something with a different sound signature, for the sake of variation :)

 

And I did read that the GR07 doesn't isolate as well as other IEMs, and isolation is very important to me. When I'm commuting I don't really want to hear anything else around me except for the music. And then I can also use them on airplanes to keep out most of the engine noise.

 

But man, this RE-400 has some sweet mids. Instruments really shine through these little IEMs. Really curious to find out what the EPH-100 sounds like. I'm still amazed that they only cost a 100 bucks. They're easily worth double the price.

It doesn't isolate as well as the ER4 for example but it quite cut you out from the external world, I think it should be the same level of isolation as the RE-400 if you get a good seal.

I haven't tested the Vsonic isolation on airplane yet, but I don't think that it will be enough to completely block all sound to a satisfactory level during flight.

For that the shure or etymotic will certainly provide better results.

I think the Vsonic isolate about 17-20db  the etymotic should be about 30-35db.


Edited by ForceMajeure - 2/7/14 at 4:50pm
post #911 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbdynsty25 View Post
 

 

Whaaaaaaaat?  Really?  I was just perusing this thread because Sony interests me as a company, not really even thinking about the 7520...and then I read this.  Holy smokes.  Seriously?  I love my GR07BEs and I've been on the neverending search to find the over ear equivalent.  Are they really that close?  If so, I'm buying one immediately.

If you love your bass tight then you shouln't be looking elsewhere.

I love the bass on the GR07be it as good as it gets IMO so tastefully done its a pure bliss to the ears,

those IEM as an ability to render drums so realistically that it still continues to amaze me..

 

Comparing with the Sony one could think that the Vsonic have an even tighter impact but that is a misperception,

because of the seal an IEM have with the ears the bass impact effect is more tactile and transferred to the brain faster.

Having said that they have a very similar bass impact and tightness. 

IMO the Sony are close enough, as I stated a tiny more mid bass hump for the Vsonic, similar bass extension on both (they both go down to 5hz),

Same amount of bass through the FR other than that mid-bass hump. Voices have a more throaty timbre on the Vsonic.

 

 

My perception on trebble extension is the same (both lacking a bit air IMO), a slight bump on the low trebble for the Sony,

Soundstage width is bigger on the Sony (but nothing exceptional for an over-ear).

Though sometimes seems greater on the Vsonic due to they form factor tricking your brain thinking "wow this tiny thing sound big",

but for me difference on soundstage width perception is more dependent on the recording implementing it ....also to be fair I don't have enough experience with open headphones to really make a statement though.

 

Better overall instrument natural timbre goes for the Sony but not by much.

No mids recessed effect at all for the Sony like sometimes the Vsonics have on some tracks, but mids on the Sony aren't too forward either..

Imaging is great on both but because of the form factor difference it's even better perceived in the Sony and is better overall.

 

Details are better on the Sony, easier to spot in vocals for ex singer's breathing and salivating,

also there's a bit more space/air between instruments.

 

Hope that my impressions might help you with your search

 

BTW I see you had the k545 how did they compare to the BE's although this might not be the thread for that 


Edited by ForceMajeure - 2/8/14 at 2:15pm
post #912 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by john57 View Post
 

I believe that soundstage is more of a factor of the recording. Much of it depends on the recording techniques being used, specially for acoustical recordings. If I have a wonderful recording but it is too dry sounding I rather use my J.River processing to increase the soundstage. I rather not be chasing after some headphones for the soundstage. Details or clear sound sound is much more important to me than soundstage when evaluating headphones. 

 

 

I agree. I think that studio headphones are far more useful if they are detailed and clear and give a real insight or 'window' into what's happening in the mix. Soundstage can be checked on monitors!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

I honestly don't care about soundstaging either, but I have to admit these are a little "claustrophobic" sounding. So if staging is even a little important for you, then these probably won't be a great experience. Personally, I have no issues with the soundstaging of the 7520, but would put that caveat out there for people just in case.

 

 

That said. I find that the 7520's improve in this respect with amping. It's easy to forget, when they already sound so good directly from an iPhone (or whatever), that they will get even better (very noticeably) with a good amp. Mine sound much less two dimensional and 'claustrophobic' (not a description I would use myself) via my Fostex HP-P1.

post #913 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike F View Post
 

That said. I find that the 7520's improve in this respect with amping. It's easy to forget, when they already sound so good directly from an iPhone (or whatever), that they will get even better (very noticeably) with a good amp. Mine sound much less two dimensional and 'claustrophobic' (not a description I would use myself) via my Fostex HP-P1.

Well the X3 pumps out about 360mW into 24ohms (HP-P1 does 80mW), so it isn't exactly an iPhone or whatever. I've also heard them off the Magni, Asgard, and even the Lyr extensively, which do about a Watt or 6. And what you're saying is true, the staging is improved (this in fact applies to most headphones I've had. More power gets you better staging and a sense of "openess" ; DACs can also play a big role, bigger in fact once you get the basic power requirements down.). But even so, I still find the soundstaging width below average, even for a closed-back phone. I do want to say again that this doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I don't want to paint a rosy picture for people who are considering the 7520 and want better than average soundstage size.


Edited by M-13 - 2/8/14 at 1:27am
post #914 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

Well the X3 pumps out about 360mW into 24ohms (HP-P1 does 80mW), so it isn't exactly an iPhone or whatever. I've also heard them off the Magni, Asgard, and even the Lyr extensively, which do about a Watt or 6. And what you're saying is true, the staging is improved (this in fact applies to most headphones I've had. More power gets you better staging and a sense of "openess" ; DACs can also play a big role, bigger in fact once you get the basic power requirements down.). But even so, I still find the soundstaging width below average, even for a closed-back phone. I do want to say again that this doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I don't want to paint a rosy picture for people who are considering the 7520 and want better than average soundstage size.

 

 

I was thinking mostly about the effect of the DAC, not about the power.

 

I any case, from Headfonics:-

 

Power

The Fostex HP-P1 sports a 32bit AKM AK4480 DAC and a built in 80mW amp which is not the strongest of amps in the world but very good for more efficient lower impedance headphones and earphones which require a bit more of a gentle touch on the dial. Higher impedance headphones over the 300ohm mark will struggle slightly with the HP-P1 compared to a CLAS with a decent amp loosing a bit of meat and richness at the lower end without really good amplification. if anything the HP-P1, being a portable solution, works best with equally portable headphones at the 32ohm level and below.

post #915 of 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike F View Post
 

 

 

I was thinking mostly about the effect of the DAC, not about the power.

 

I any case, from Headfonics:-

 

Power

The Fostex HP-P1 sports a 32bit AKM AK4480 DAC and a built in 80mW amp which is not the strongest of amps in the world but very good for more efficient lower impedance headphones and earphones which require a bit more of a gentle touch on the dial. Higher impedance headphones over the 300ohm mark will struggle slightly with the HP-P1 compared to a CLAS with a decent amp loosing a bit of meat and richness at the lower end without really good amplification. if anything the HP-P1, being a portable solution, works best with equally portable headphones at the 32ohm level and below.


Weren't you talking about amping when you said: "improve in this respect with amping"? Kind of confusing if you were talking about DACs. I guess I misunderstood your wording.

 

Anyway. HP-P1 and CLAS solutions were in vogue like 2 years ago, but with the recent advancement in DAPs, it's whole new world for me and much of Head-Fi. I'm not saying the X3 is better because I haven't seen a real comparison, but certainly the newly arriving X5 and DX90 might be superior. What I can say is that the X3 is several times more powerful and the components and implementation of the amp/dac section is pretty decent, and much better than something like an iPhone. Not sure if you thought I was actually using a phone to drive my 7520? Didn't see anyone saying that on this thread including me.

 

As for the HP-P1 working best with 32ohm or below. Yeah, it has to because 80mW isn't exactly a lot of power. It won't give you much headroom for headphones with high impedance; it won't be able to drive anything difficult at all, so saying it does best with 32ohms and below isn't shocking. Btw, who is this Headfonics guy? Not sure he's one of the "big" reviewers well know around these parts. Most people quote Tyll from Innerfidelity or Mike from Headfonia.

 

Not sure if you're trying to say the X3 is inadequate to show the soundstaging capabilities of the 7520? or what your exact point is, but either way I've heard the 7520 sourced by the Bifrost and also the Concero. Which are also fine midrange DACs. In fact I would venture to guess that the Concero is definitely the better DAC between it and the HP-P1, and pretty much showed off the soundstaging/imaging capabilities of the 7520 to pretty good extent. But if you want to say the HP-P1 is vastly superior I guess I don't really have anything to say because I've never heard the HP-P1

 

I'm trying very hard to think of a can that has a smaller soundstage than the 7520 out of all the cans I've owned/auditioned and the only thing that comes to mind is the Z1000. :tongue_smile: So yeah...

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