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Anybody else has a love/hate relationship with Beyer 990 - Page 3

post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by alyx View Post
 

 

I like the soundstage on the dt990, it's almost as wide as my hd598's. The details in music are clearer and more present, some say it sounds artificial and fatiguing but not for me. After listening to them for a few days I had to go back to my 598s (because i had to send my 990 in to replace the drivers^) most instruments and some vocals sounded like something was masking them, I guess now I know what the sennheiser veil is or it's just me getting used to the 990's elevated treble. :p

 

Actually I agree with this. I expected the 598 to be quite bright based on reviews; instead I felt the high treble was missing and the lower treble was rather harsh, even exaggerated. I much prefer the 595.

post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicman74 View Post

Man if you think the 598s have "The Senn Veil" stop right there and NEVER try any other Senns, the 598 is the cleanest sounding Senn IMO.. if those are veiled run away now!!!

Agree!

 

The 558 and 598 do not heave the veil that I would typically attribute to low volume listing to the HD600 and HD650.  More the HD650 than anything.

 

The midrange on the DT990 is what clues me in on its coloring.  Just compare it with headphones that measure more flat in the frequency response and all of sudden you will not be able to ignore it.  It is a fun headphone for sure, just not one I can stand to listen to any longer.


Edited by NA Blur - 9/24/13 at 4:05pm
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Blur View Post
 

Agree!

 

The 558 and 598 do not heave the veil that I would typically attribute to low volume listing to the HD600 and HD650.  More the HD650 than anything.

 

The midrange on the DT990 is what clues me in on its coloring.  Just compare it with headphones that measure more flat in the frequency response and all of sudden you will not be able to ignore it.  It is a fun headphone for sure, just not one I can stand to listen to any longer.

 

I can ignore it just fine actually. Granted I do not like it much for rock an what not, as the guitars often get a little drowned out by the bass

 
but the mids are still very real. for CLassical I very much do enjoy it! Still the Dt 880 balanced out of the Audio GD 10ES2 really does out shine it a little. Making the flaws of the SE dt 990 a little more obvious... that said we'll see how the HE 400 does here soon! 
post #34 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

 

I can ignore it just fine actually. Granted I do not like it much for rock an what not, as the guitars often get a little drowned out by the bass

 
but the mids are still very real. for CLassical I very much do enjoy it! Still the Dt 880 balanced out of the Audio GD 10ES2 really does out shine it a little. Making the flaws of the SE dt 990 a little more obvious... that said we'll see how the HE 400 does here soon! 

Again it depends on recordings.  I was listening to Pulse a little earlier on the 990s and it sounded great, but Delicate Sound of Thunder flacs sounded quite a bit brighter and just didn't work as well on the 990s.  They're both rock, the same band, the same songs, just different live concerts and recordings.  And again, One Slip from Momentary laps of Reason sounded not great, and from what I remember, Welcome to the Machine from Wish You Were Here sounded great. 

 

I don't really feel that the bass drowns out anything on the 990s, and that's what seems quite impressive about, they retain a very detailed midrange eventhough the mids are indeed recessed.  But I guess it's almost counter-intuitive that the mids aren't indeed drowned out...  Hell, listening now and Gilmour's voice on W(ish)YWH has none of that edginess/harshness of One Slip, and the 990s do a great job on that song, no real complaint really! 

 

I just switched to the Q701s, significant sound difference, definitely more neutral, yet sounds a bit more shouty/harsh in comparison; not that the Q701 sounds harsh/shouty, but its more neutral sound signature, on that record, feels much dryer as it doesn't have the low end of the 990. (would be less of an 'issue' if the recording had inherently more bass)  The AKG is definitely more detailed though.  No question, better headphone imho, but that said, the 990s aren't bad on WYWH, went back to the 990s, listened to it for a 4th time, one of those times I'd have a hard time choosing which 'version' I prefer!   :\

 

And strangely, both 990s and Q701s are rather new, 990s 1 month older than Q701s, but I seem to reach more often for the 990s, even if like I said, I really think the Q701s are better headphones...  Weird...  I guess, maybe subconsciously, I think the 990s are more enjoyable...   Well, sometimes at least, other times I don't like how they sound though..  :(  lol


Edited by GirgleMirt - 9/24/13 at 7:30pm
post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post

 

And strangely, both 990s and Q701s are rather new, 990s 1 month older than Q701s, but I seem to reach more often for the 990s, even if like I said, I really think the Q701s are better...  Weird...  I guess maybe subconsciously, that I find the 990s more enjoyable, sometimes...  ;)  Other times I don't like them though..  :(  lol

Well for my they do drown things out, there's to much bass and it leads to a little to much body in some instruments, not to mention the detail of the mids is FANTASTIC but they are recessed 

 

That said got my Audio GD 10ES2 today... it's better than I expected :O 

post #36 of 42
Thread Starter 

That looks like some serious amp...!   What amp did you have before?  Do you (still?) have the 990s?  I'm still unconvinced about the 990s, recently, the Q701s have just done a lot better overall, and I've somewhat been disappointed with the 990 :(   The 990s seem to do best with classical/orchestral, where their frequency response tends more to add to the recording rather than making me pay attention to it, other than that all too often not that great...

 

I was even a bit considering getting some 880s, not a huge investment at 250$cdn, but, given the Q701 and 990s, not sure how they'd fit in, plus it's getting a bit in the ridiculous territory...  Maybe sell the 990s?  The Q701 sticker mod is supposed to improve their bass, so I don't know...  I guess when you listen to the 990s on their own, they can be quite enjoyable, most or at least some of the time, but when you compare it to the Q701, it's just hard not to make the comparison and not end up with the conclusion that the Q701 is just the better headphone.  It sometimes happens that the 990s seem to do better, but most often the Q701 just kinda trumps them...

 

I've even somewhat resorted to try to find positive reviews/posts to somehow get me more motivated about the 990s, but on my Schiit modi+magni, eventhough I said I somehow reached more for the 990s, seems when I A/B the 990s, they really don't do that great.  Yesterday I even pulled out some old super cheap (20$) Koss UR 20, and was quite impressed with them, I walked away with the impression that they should have done a lot worse compared to the 990s...  :(

 

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=1363&graphID[]=2241&scale=30

 

Sigh, really a roller-coaster, I have a hard time making up my mind, but I guess my opinion of the 990s is less positive than it was what, 2-3 weeks ago?  :(

post #37 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Well for my they do drown things out, there's to much bass and it leads to a little to much body in some instruments, not to mention the detail of the mids is FANTASTIC but they are recessed 

Yeah I think I see what you mean...  I think that speakers/headphones like the 990, with a rather bad frequency response (not very neutral), really fall apart the more range of the instrument/music has;  if you're just listening to a single voice, which may for example go from 2000hz to 3000hz to 5000hz then back to 2000hz while singing a melody, would be an instance where they can do very well, and indeed seem very detailed.

 

But, if we're talking about a guitar for instance, which at the same time might have some 200hz and 1000hz and 5000hz, then it somehow all collapses and the whole instrument is 'lost'.  Parts of it are drowned (lost), others are too in evidence (too loud), and it doesn't seem realistic; you lose that realism.  Where a flatter headphone; Q701, will reproduce that instrument a lot better:  It will sound a lot more detailed; lot more like a real instrument.

 

For orchestras, most groups are playing in similar ranges; the violins will all relatively be playing same range, the trumpet another, cellos another, etc., so all can seem 'balanced' in their own right, even if the cellos are a little louder, trumpets a little forward, it can all 'flow' or appear normal in the music. (trumpets more in front, violins bit further away, etc.)  But when you know the material or are reproducing a single instrument, it can all too easily fall apart...  Hence; short coming of a headphone like 990...  They can sound good, but when compared to Q701, their shortcomings can be really hard to ignore... 


Edited by GirgleMirt - 10/7/13 at 7:29pm
post #38 of 42

Just EQ the bass down, guys. Do it right and you get the same result as if they had been made that way.

 

I love my vintage DT 990, hate them for being overpriced.

post #39 of 42
Thread Starter 
Yeah not a bad idea lol I'll try to get a good EQ plugin with a lot of bands and enter the inverse FR curve of its measured response. Tuning down the treble helps often, but like PF's One Slip's vocals never sounded perfect. Delicate sound of thunder I listend this morning on Etys and it sounded wonderful, I'll put more time EQing see what I can come up with smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by GirgleMirt - 10/8/13 at 8:17am
post #40 of 42
Thread Starter 

Has anyone EQ settings for the 990?   I played a bit with the EQ.  My issue, or maybe why I was a bit reluctant to do so, is that I seem to have a knack to know when it's not equalized perfectly, but getting it perfect is what I seem to fail to accomplish.  My best results it seems is when the EQ settings are smooth.  If it looks ragged, it's most often when it'll sound incorrect.  That said, I plugged in the inverse EQ settings as the headphone.com measurements, that way it should in theory sound perfectly flat, and it does somehow sound flatter, but it does suffer from the 'something sounds off' effect.  So I smoothed it a little, and to my ears the sound improved.  I then reduced a bit the EQ settings, so that it does not try to 100% fix the 990, but instead just help it a little, and to my ears, it once again, on average, sound better.  It won't have the same sound signature as the Q701, nor fix One Slip 100%, but it seems like a better compromise.

 

(spoilered for size) (Click to show)

 

 

(for below, the 1st is 55hz, 2nd is 77hz, etc, you can easily set by clicking on the top or bottom part of the slider in the EQ)

 

Settings for 1st above graph

-1
-3
-5
-5
-5
-4
-3
-1
0
0
1
1
0
-2
-4
-6
-3
0

 

Settings for 2nd

-1
-2
-3
-3
-3
-2
-1
0
1
1
1
1
1
0
-1
-3
-2
0

 

And I think that to fix 100% the 'voice' of say One slip, a more aggressive setting is required than either one posted above:

 

-1
-3
-5
-5
-5
-4
-3
-1
0
0
1
1
0
-3
-6
-8
-5
0

 

I think the above is now my most favorite setting is it seems to be pretty damn successful in 'fixing' the 990s; get rid of the voice issue of One Slip for instance, it doesn't sound off to me after a few seconds playing.  But damn, EQing isn't that easy...  :P  It's a bit like tuning a guitar for me, I can easily tell if it's not perfectly tuned, but tuning perfectly isn't easy especially on some guits with floating bridge & not such great tuning pegs...

I'd be curious for those with 990s to give these a shots and give their impressions, and who knows if they've managed to improve them  :)


Edited by GirgleMirt - 10/10/13 at 7:20pm
post #41 of 42
Thread Starter 

The less aggressive EQ settings definitely seems best, the others seem to be largely dependent on the recording, while for instance it might fix One Slip, it might give a totally nasal and unnatural sound to other voices/records, so by default no EQ wins.  The less aggressive EQ settings, while not fixing 100% the sibilance/harshness of some voices/albums on average seems to bring the headphones to a more neutral sound, without sounding off in general...  Whether it's better on/off really seems to depend on the recording though...   :\   So as always, seems like there's a mild success using an EQ; seems it can be improve the sound sometimes, but it can't make a colored phone/speaker into a perfectly neutral sounding one.


Edited by GirgleMirt - 10/12/13 at 9:38am
post #42 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
 

So as always, seems like there's a mild success using an EQ; seems it can be improve the sound sometimes, but it can't make a colored phone/speaker into a perfectly neutral sounding one.

 

For best results, get an affordable electret microphone and set up a way to measure the frequency response with some reliability; you'll then have a better overall idea of where the problems might lie.

 

Otherwise, if measurements aren't an option, you'll need careful listening of sine sweeps to find what causes the sound to be off; and once you know what's off, you'll know how to EQ it.

 

Consider Electri-Q as the EQ, too - that foobar EQ is quite bad.

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