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~$400 iem (pfe112 upgrade) - Page 2

post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schokolade bar View Post
 

UMx series typically has a signature for stage monitors, whereas the w series leans towards a more home listening experience. I don't think the UM1 is a good place to base assumptions on the UMx series considering it's a single BA compared to the three way crossover of the UM3x, but either of the westones are great, and I prefer them over the others mentioned in this thread. I also find westone as a company to be extremely satisfying with prompt responses to requests, and an excellent RMA process, but you shouldn't have to use it since their products are made to last.

 

Well, If I'm just listening music at home, should I consider the W series over the UM series? Big Thanks :D

post #17 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peareye View Post
 

i wouldn't say they are thin sounding...i find vocals are rich and clear with the sony dap...

 

if i compare them to my denon d5000s (which are thick and of course, bassy)...they might be thought of as thin but not by a large margin....

 

the heaven V are quite a bit more spacious sounding though...it does make me curious about their other iems going up the food chain...

 

for the most part, there seems to be quite a loyalty for most owners

 

Okay, Then I'll consider them as well, thank you :D

post #18 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spriest View Post


Driver stacking doesn't guarantee sound improvement.

 

You mean that multi drivers doesn't mean fuller, richer sounding? 

post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterCheng View Post
 

 

You mean that multi drivers doesn't mean fuller, richer sounding? 

 

It doesn't guarantee either, but to be honest I feel your requirements are not all that reasonable in the first place. Every IEM has give and take because every positive has a draw back, generally. You say you want more bass, but you also want the bass to be tight and not bloated. Those are kind of contradictory, especially when combined with the fact you say you also want more mids and more highs. So you want more bass (which generally reduces clarity and forwardness of mids) especially when you also mention you want more treble extension.

 

Basic rules(generalizations) - more bass = less clarity

More bass = less forward/clear mids

More bass = less treble extension and less easy to hear details

 

You need to pick what is most important and not want more of everything. If you value clarity most, ER4P/S is probably your best bet overall. If you want a well balanced but not thin sounding IEM then the W4R is a great option, but it doesn't have the extension/shimmer of the ER4P/PFR112 iirc. If you want more treble extension, don't buy the UM3X. It has great vocals, decent bass/warmth but treble is generally considered its weak point, along with soundstage. You could consider the W3 but the mids are mediocre in my opinion. I would say the W4R is your best bet, but I don't think you will be that happy with the treble on it if you want more extension than the 112's.


Edited by Zalithian - 9/19/13 at 11:49pm
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalithian View Post

It doesn't guarantee either, but to be honest I feel your requirements are not all that reasonable in the first place. Every IEM has give and take because every positive has a draw back, generally. You say you want more bass, but you also want the bass to be tight and not bloated. Those are kind of contradictory, especially when combined with the fact you say you also want more mids and more highs. So you want more bass (which generally reduces clarity and forwardness of mids) especially when you also mention you want more treble extension.

Basic rules(generalizations) - more bass = less clarity
More bass = less forward/clear mids
More bass = less treble extension and less easy to hear details

You need to pick what is most important and not want more of everything. If you value clarity most, ER4P/S is probably your best bet overall. If you want a well balanced but not thin sounding IEM then the W4R is a great option, but it doesn't have the extension/shimmer of the ER4P/PFR112 iirc. If you want more treble extension, don't buy the UM3X. It has great vocals, decent bass/warmth but treble is generally considered its weak point, along with soundstage. You could consider the W3 but the mids are mediocre in my opinion. I would say the W4R is your best bet, but I don't think you will be that happy with the treble on it if you want more extension than the 112's.

okay... Then Ill just make my requirements clearer. Clarity with fuller sounding in all aspects. Just not recessed sounding smily_headphones1.gif I think either um3x or w4 will be great smily_headphones1.gif
post #21 of 31
Westone doesn't make aniem for you. Their sig sound is a massive scoop out of upper mids and lower treble. Massive as in 15dB. Big spike at 10KHz too. The idea is to create distance but it's too much.
post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterCheng View Post


okay... Then Ill just make my requirements clearer. Clarity with fuller sounding in all aspects. Just not recessed sounding smily_headphones1.gif I think either um3x or w4 will be great smily_headphones1.gif

W4's treble is a bit laid back to me and has its focus on upper mids, which sound really good. Um3X has even less treble than the W4/is mid focused from what I've read, with really good instrument separation. 

 

I personally like the Sony EX 1000, which has a upper mid/treble emphasis. In addition, EX 1000 has more bass and more decay in the bass than the PFE; the PFE's bass decay seemed too fast/unnatural to me. Finally, the EX1000 has a huge soundstage for an IEM, sounds very natural, and has better detailing than the PFE112. 

post #23 of 31

I suggest you try the sony mh1.  Don't jump to conclusions, but it is only $20 and is an upgrade to the pfe112.  The pfe112 has been my favorite IEM for a long while and I've actually bought it more than once.  I've compared it directly to all them major iems.  You can see some of these here www.youtube.com/user/dentreviews

 

I just grabbed a pair of mh1 on a whim to simply check them out.  They are almost EXACTLY what you described.  They have a similar enough response to the pfe112, but they have more bass, sound warmer and have better treble and extension. They also have less distortion, which becomes more obvious when you compare the two side by side.  The mh1 has a bit more depth and smoothness throughout the spectrum.

 

I highly recommend them for your question.  You would probably be shocked at how good they sound for the price.  I was, and I got an audiophile friend to buy a pair, and he was blown away too.  He also came from $300+ "reference" iems such as the er4s, fitear f111, asg2, etc.

 

p.s.  compared to the pfe112 the westone 4r is muffled and very warm. with a strong mid bass and then mid/treble cut coming back to a treble boost.  Not really comparable to the pfe112 in signature.  The mh1 is like the good aspects of the pfe112 made better all around.


Edited by luisdent - 11/8/13 at 9:06pm
post #24 of 31
You are in gearfag mode.
post #25 of 31
I like um3x more than w4.. w4 sounds too flat and not as emotionally involving as the um3x
post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace8888 View Post

I like um3x more than w4.. w4 sounds too flat and not as emotionally involving as the um3x

 

The problem is that the w4 isn't really that flat.  Don't get me wrong, it has a smooth response and isn't horribly bassy or anything, but the extra midbass really reduces the dynamics and clarity that give it flatness.  The good thing is that you can easily improve the 4r with a resistor and/or eq.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by powasky View Post

You are in gearfag mode.

 

Please elaborate...


Edited by luisdent - 2/3/14 at 8:46pm
post #27 of 31

i feel right now, until the w4r is phased out, its the best priced iem you can get. BUT i dont know that the e5 will make that difference in sound quality you hear with a mid range amp...and IMO the w4r needs a amp. for whatever reason its not like its super high ohms or anything it just benifits from a amp.

 

i say invest in a better amp like the jds labs c5 or something else in that price range. or below.......for instance you could go with the w3 and still have $111.00usd left for a amp, you could get a decent amp like the e17 is almost that much, or others amps used could be around that price.

post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post
 

i feel right now, until the w4r is phased out, its the best priced iem you can get. BUT i dont know that the e5 will make that difference in sound quality you hear with a mid range amp...and IMO the w4r needs a amp. for whatever reason its not like its super high ohms or anything it just benifits from a amp.

 

i say invest in a better amp like the jds labs c5 or something else in that price range. or below.......for instance you could go with the w3 and still have $111.00usd left for a amp, you could get a decent amp like the e17 is almost that much, or others amps used could be around that price.

 

I notice that the c5 sort of opens up the w4 a bit in how instruments are separated and stand out.  It doesn't really brighten the 4r, but just makes everything more distinct, which is a nice improvement.  A 100ohm resistor lowers the mid bass a bit, but not too much, so they start to sound really good at that point.  I think everyone should try that.  It does nothing but bring them closer to flat while still retaining their warmish midbass tonality.  But details are better and things are more open again.  Highly recommend it if you have a 4r.


Edited by luisdent - 11/9/13 at 10:09am
post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I notice that the c5 sort of opens up the w4 a bit in how instruments are separated and stand out.  It doesn't really brighten the 4r, but just makes everything more distinct, which is a nice improvement.

this is true, when i owned the C5 i noticed what others have noticed in reviews and that was it had a slight bump of brightness, JDS labs themselves say this isnt true. but maybe its what your saying just everything more distinct with the amp and that kinda mimics brightness....becuase what is brightness bringing something forward bringing something out making it more distinct.. i found the JDS labs c421 to be a exceptional amp for the price. ive seen them for around 100.00 on here.. i found it to be almost on par with the C5 but the C5 was mildly different. i had them both at the same time so i could A/B And i couldnt figure out what one i liked more. 

post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I notice that the c5 sort of opens up the w4 a bit in how instruments are separated and stand out.  It doesn't really brighten the 4r, but just makes everything more distinct, which is a nice improvement.

this is true, when i owned the C5 i noticed what others have noticed in reviews and that was it had a slight bump of brightness, JDS labs themselves say this isnt true. but maybe its what your saying just everything more distinct with the amp and that kinda mimics brightness....becuase what is brightness bringing something forward bringing something out making it more distinct.. i found the JDS labs c421 to be a exceptional amp for the price. ive seen them for around 100.00 on here.. i found it to be almost on par with the C5 but the C5 was mildly different. i had them both at the same time so i could A/B And i couldnt figure out what one i liked more. 

 

Well, I'd have to agree with jds.  I've compared a crap load of gear and find the c5 to be perfectly flat.  But the spacial properties give the "impression" of things being brighter, without actually being brighter.  So that results in no harshness but more separation and detail.  I think some people hear their earphone with the low impedance and flat frequency response and "think" it's off, because they're not used to the iem sounding the way it does under neutral conditions.  But either way, it's not a "huge" difference, but it does help.

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