or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Bowers & Wilkins P7 - over the ear headphones
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Bowers & Wilkins P7 - over the ear headphones - Page 15

post #211 of 1468

Just picked up a pair of P7s last night! I've been researching headphones for the past month or so, looking for a replacement for my Sennheiser HD595s, which I was never too happy with for various reasons (lack of bass, poor construction & materials mainly). I ordered and received a pair of Sennheiser Momentums yesterday (perks of Amazon being in Seattle). I, like many, was incredibly disappointed by the fit of the ear cups of the Momentums. They seemed to be half over-ear, half on-ear for me. After 45 minutes of listening, I couldn't keep them on anymore. I've been watching the P7 closely. While reviews and impressions are slowly accumulating I like what I've read so far and wanted to give them a shot to see how I liked them in comparison to the Momentums. I also wanted to give the Momentums a few days to see if the pads soften a bit. After calling three Apple Stores in the greater Seattle area I found one that had a pair of P7s in stock. Hooray! I'm going to live and work with both for a week before making a decision and sending one home. There can be only one! 

 

I'm going to write up a big post on my extended findings, but this is a close race between the two. I have about maybe 5-6 hours of play and burn-in with each pair, so we'll see how they evolve over the next week. I'm going straight into my Retina MacBook Pro, so the addition of a USB DAC or headphone amp may change the sonic characteristics of both. If anyone has any insight into DAC/amp performance with the P7 I'd love to hear!  

 

Here are some quick impressions:

 

Comfort:

The P7 wins for me due to my ears not fitting in the Momentum. The P7 headband is heavier, but hasn't been a problem for me so far. The clamp is good on the P7 and while the ear cup leather is stiff, I hasn't been an issue so far.

 

Sound:

This is tough. It really depends on preference as both are excellent headphones. I listen to a lot of music. Some of the artists I've been using for testing purposes are My Bloody Valentine, Converge, Death Grips, The Smiths, Interpol, Chvrches, Kanye West, Slayer, Trent Reznor Soundtracks (Girl With The Dragon Tattoo & The Social Network), Daft Punk, Massive Attack, Yelle, The Knife, Burial, Bob Dylan, Arcade Fire, At The Drive-In, Black Sabbath, The Beatles, Boards Of Canada, and a smattering of others. So a good mix of electronic, metal, hardcore, indie rock, and pop. In my library I generally use ALAC files. The lowest quality I'll accept is 256kbps AAC from the iTunes store, but I usually seek out the ALAC. (iTunes, jump on the lossless train please...)

 

Momentum: Warmer, more forward, smaller but more immediate sounding soundstage, very rich and vibrant mids, kicking low end and very nice vocal presentation. Very appealing and versatile.

P7: In general the biggest difference between the Momentum and the P7 I'm finding is the P7's mids feel comparatively scooped. This makes the coloring less and a more neutral sound that feels colder than the Momentum. Definitely more airy and open. Nice detail in the treble yet not harsh. Bass is deeper in the P7 as has been reported, but it's different. It doesn't really impact and hit like it does on the Momentum. The P7 seems to be more removed in it's presentation at times. There are times when this signature really excels and makes the music feel very large.

 

It's interesting to see how each handle different genres. It really goes back and forth. When something really excels in the P7 it will sound much less epic and almost bland in the Momentum. When something is warm and more engaging in the Momentum it will seem comparatively cold and almost passive in the P7. I'll pick a few songs and do a comparison write up soon as well as keep posting impressions. 

post #212 of 1468
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVGodzilla View Post

 

In general the biggest difference between the Momentum and the P7 I'm finding is the P7's mids feel comparatively scooped.

 

:blink::confused:

post #213 of 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinVGodzilla View Post
 

Just picked up a pair of P7s last night! I've been researching headphones for the past month or so, looking for a replacement for my Sennheiser HD595s, which I was never too happy with for various reasons (lack of bass, poor construction & materials mainly). I ordered and received a pair of Sennheiser Momentums yesterday (perks of Amazon being in Seattle). I, like many, was incredibly disappointed by the fit of the ear cups of the Momentums. They seemed to be half over-ear, half on-ear for me. After 45 minutes of listening, I couldn't keep them on anymore. I've been watching the P7 closely. While reviews and impressions are slowly accumulating I like what I've read so far and wanted to give them a shot to see how I liked them in comparison to the Momentums. I also wanted to give the Momentums a few days to see if the pads soften a bit. After calling three Apple Stores in the greater Seattle area I found one that had a pair of P7s in stock. Hooray! I'm going to live and work with both for a week before making a decision and sending one home. There can be only one! 

 

I'm going to write up a big post on my extended findings, but this is a close race between the two. I have about maybe 5-6 hours of play and burn-in with each pair, so we'll see how they evolve over the next week. I'm going straight into my Retina MacBook Pro, so the addition of a USB DAC or headphone amp may change the sonic characteristics of both. If anyone has any insight into DAC/amp performance with the P7 I'd love to hear!  

 

Here are some quick impressions:

 

Comfort:

The P7 wins for me due to my ears not fitting in the Momentum. The P7 headband is heavier, but hasn't been a problem for me so far. The clamp is good on the P7 and while the ear cup leather is stiff, I hasn't been an issue so far.

 

Sound:

This is tough. It really depends on preference as both are excellent headphones. I listen to a lot of music. Some of the artists I've been using for testing purposes are My Bloody Valentine, Converge, Death Grips, The Smiths, Interpol, Chvrches, Kanye West, Slayer, Trent Reznor Soundtracks (Girl With The Dragon Tattoo & The Social Network), Daft Punk, Massive Attack, Yelle, The Knife, Burial, Bob Dylan, Arcade Fire, At The Drive-In, Black Sabbath, The Beatles, Boards Of Canada, and a smattering of others. So a good mix of electronic, metal, hardcore, indie rock, and pop. In my library I generally use ALAC files. The lowest quality I'll accept is 256kbps AAC from the iTunes store, but I usually seek out the ALAC. (iTunes, jump on the lossless train please...)

 

Momentum: Warmer, more forward, smaller but more immediate sounding soundstage, very rich and vibrant mids, kicking low end and very nice vocal presentation. Very appealing and versatile.

P7: In general the biggest difference between the Momentum and the P7 I'm finding is the P7's mids feel comparatively scooped. This makes the coloring less and a more neutral sound that feels colder than the Momentum. Definitely more airy and open. Nice detail in the treble yet not harsh. Bass is deeper in the P7 as has been reported, but it's different. It doesn't really impact and hit like it does on the Momentum. The P7 seems to be more removed in it's presentation at times. There are times when this signature really excels and makes the music feel very large.

 

It's interesting to see how each handle different genres. It really goes back and forth. When something really excels in the P7 it will sound much less epic and almost bland in the Momentum. When something is warm and more engaging in the Momentum it will seem comparatively cold and almost passive in the P7. I'll pick a few songs and do a comparison write up soon as well as keep posting impressions. 

Thanks for the initial thoughts. I'm really interested in your last comment regarding the differences between the P7 and the Momentum. The treatment of different genres would be of great interest to a lot of us. I'm listening to to Ana Popvic's "Can you Stand the Heat" on the P7 and her voice seems just a tad more distant when compared to my HD-650 even when trying to compensate for gain. Maybe this is just the difference between an open and closed headphone? Anyway, I look forward to hearing your further thoughts.

post #214 of 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
 

 

:blink::confused:

 

That's a term used with guitar amps describing the sound created when turning the mids down and the treble and bass up :) So while the Momentum has a very full and vibrant mid presence, while the P7's mids comparatively feels much less present.

 

This is almost the biggest difference between them to my ears at this point. At times it can make a song sound full and more engaging in the Momentums, while at others it makes it almost too busy sounding. When listening to The Beatles (2009 Stereo Remasters CD > ALAC), for example, I MUCH preferred the P7. The stereo separation of instruments and vocals in the Beatles catalog is interesting to listen to, but when listening to 'Magical Mystery Tour' on the Momentums it became jumbled and difficult hear the vocals at times. The P7 by contrast, gave a very clear and accurate, yet exciting presentation to the same material.

post #215 of 1468
Justin I am right there with you on comparing the mids...
post #216 of 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
 

 

:blink::confused:

Agreed Dave...certainly not what I'm hearing with my P7s (and in comparison to my M500s and Momentums).

post #217 of 1468

I just picked up the P7. If they work, they're going to go on the flight to Australia in a few days. Giving them a test run on a flight tomorrow to see how noise isolation is versus the Harman Kardon NC (which is essentially replacing the Sony MDR-1RNC I've been using since last fall for flights). If so, the NC will go.

 

My first impression of the P7 is that they are definitely more comfortable (in fact, VERY comfortable), have good soundstage, and are pretty balanced from top to bottom. I'm also not hearing much of a midrange scoop. While not as "warm" as the Momentum (which I only had briefly), I would say that I already prefer the presentation overall of the P7. I did audition the P5 (and P3) at one point - the P7 is a whole different thing.

 

I've already listened to a bit of everything from Rush to Hank Jones and a few things inbetween. On the jazz stuff, the horns and piano sound great - so does acoustic bass. I've had a lot of headphones over the years, and "So What" (from Kind of Blue) just sounded right. The P7s rocked on Rush's "The Trees", treating the acoustic beginning delicately and the heavy stuff wasn't bloated anywhere. Even the Taurus pedals in the middle part were not bloated at all.

 

The Sony NW-F807 also drives the P7 well, unlike the B&O H6 which it doesn't.

post #218 of 1468

I have been trying out the P7 and Momentum for a week and ended up with the P7. I like the overall comfort, portability and sound of P7. They are very close to sounding like speakers. Very good clarity, instrument separation and better sound stage than the Momentums. I wouldn't call it more bass but there is a certain weight to the music and the vocals. I am really surprised they sound so good and loud out of an iPod.

 

The Momentums were also very comfortable (small ears) but not as portable ... they do not fold and the box they are stored in is very big. And a little annoyance, you have to retract the cups every time you put them back in the case. Comparatively the P7s take up half the space when packed. 


Edited by jmkarthi - 10/19/13 at 7:53pm
post #219 of 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinVGodzilla View Post
 

 So while the Momentum has a very full and vibrant mid presence, while the P7's mids comparatively feels much less present.

 

Sorry, I'm hearing the complete opposite..

post #220 of 1468
It has to be a source thing then, because I'm hearing the same thing with the mids as Justin. Hopefully there's not variability in the product itself, because what I'm hearing is so obvious that I cannot imagine someone else NOT hearing it.

I'm running both straight out of an iPod Classic, maybe the p7 needs an amp to sound its best.

I will say this, the more I listen to the P7 the more I like it...
post #221 of 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
 

 

Sorry, I'm hearing the complete opposite..

I'm not implying the P7 lacks mids, but in direct comparison to the Momentum the P7 seems to emphasize the deep lows and treble more.

 

As my day of listening has gone on and I'm acclimating to both sound signatures, I'm finding myself gravitating more towards the P7. Comfort aside, I'm finding that the Momentum excels in a few areas with specific music (Rock, Pop), but lacks the clarity the P7 can deliver. The warmth of the Momentum also has a tendency to make instruments bleed into vocals. With more listening and burn-in I'm find the initial 'distant' sound I was observing in the P7 has decreased as well. They're really growing on me!

 

Here are a few brief song by song comparisons:

 

Animal Collective - Peacebone (ALAC) - Winner: P7
The P7 kills it here. Great bass presence to vocal balance. The Momentum performs really well here as well, although the deep bass of the P7 is missed. I heard a few details on the Momentums that weren't very audible on the P7.
 

Arcade Fire - Reflektor (320 Mp3) - Winner: P7
P7 feels very open and really lets the instruments breathe here. Feels much more engaging than the Momentum, which I wasn't expecting at all. The Momentums made this song seem almost flat when comparing the two.
 

At The Drive-In - Arcarsenal (ALAC) - Winner: Momentums
The warmth and forwardness of the Momentum handily wins this. Still head bob inducing on the P7s, but the warmth of the SM really works well here. The bass feels tighter and pops more in the Momentums.

 

The Beatles - Come Together (Stereo 2009 Remastered ALAC) - Winner: Draw, very slight edge to the Momentum for highlighting the bass playing better.
The Momentums have fantastic instrument separation here. When the guitar hits, the warmth of the Momentums feels really good. Johns vocals feel good, Paul's bass playing is nicely present. Good kick drum presence. On the P7 Paul's bass isn't as tight but John's vocals are clearer. Good instrument separation on the P7 as well. Very, very close on this track.

 

Belle & Sebastian - Expectations (ALAC) - Winner: P7
The Momentum once again has nice tight bass that initially compliments, however when the rest of the instruments pick up, the vocals get bled into significantly. On the P7 the bass is present but not as tight. I can hear more percussion in the beginning of the song. It doesn't swell like the Momentums when the horns come in, but vocals are MUCH cleaner and present. The Momentums get too jumbled on this track, P7 handily wins.

 

Grimes - Oblivion (256 AAC) - Winner: P7
The P7 has a MUCH cleaner and pleasing presentation on this track. Deep bass kicks are very pleasing and don't bleed over into the vocals as they do on the Momentums.
 

The Knife - Full Of Fire (256 AAC) - Winner: P7
The P7 MURDERS this track, and I mean that in the best way possible. Wow. It was like hearing it for the first time. That bass just THUMPS and the vocals never get infringed upon. Lots of details emerge as well that I'd not noticed before. Very nice showcasing song for this headphone.

 

Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Mladic (ALAC) - Winner: P7
P7 controls the chaos. It handles all of the instruments extremely well and makes the song's build feel epic. On the Momentum the kick drum is much more present, warmth is nice in the build, but the treble isn't as clear as it is in the P7. The warmth starts to muddle the sound a bit compared to the P7 as it builds.
 

LCD Soundsystem - Tribulations (ALAC) - Winner: P7
P7 BRINGS IT on this track. Sub bass was outstanding on this track with the P7. The Momentum definitely feels less dynamic here, but still performs well. The deep bass makes all of the difference though and brings this track to life!

 

The Smiths - Headmaster Ritual (ALAC) - Winner: P7

Andy Rourke's bass playing may be more forward in the Momentums, but the overall sound is much more pleasing on the P7. Vocals sound great and the song just sounds like it should on the P7s. The Momentums do a nice job here, and make the bass playing more prominent, but in the end I prefer the P7.

 

I'll dip into some hip-hop and metal soon! 

post #222 of 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkManiac View Post

It has to be a source thing then, because I'm hearing the same thing with the mids as Justin. Hopefully there's not variability in the product itself, because what I'm hearing is so obvious that I cannot imagine someone else NOT hearing it.

I'm running both straight out of an iPod Classic, maybe the p7 needs an amp to sound its best.

I will say this, the more I listen to the P7 the more I like it...

The sound has started to settle for me with burn in and use! That initial cold and scooped sound was pretty off-putting at first, but after 15 hours of use or so they're loosening up for me. 

post #223 of 1468

The Momentum vs P7 discussion users; do your ears fit inside the cups on Momentum (for me when I first saw Momentum in a store I thought they were on ears as I thought noway any ears fit inside, surely mine doesn't, maybe half - 3/4 of it) so the ears sit very far away from the drivers and they sounded just _BAD_ to me. Midrange obviously seemed a lot recessed and that's what I've been experiencing also when testing different pads or made the pads deeper, the mids are the first to take the backseat when moving ears further away.

So I guess Momentum headphones really are geared towards people with very small ears.

post #224 of 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkManiac View Post

It has to be a source thing then, because I'm hearing the same thing with the mids as Justin. Hopefully there's not variability in the product itself, because what I'm hearing is so obvious that I cannot imagine someone else NOT hearing it.

I'm running both straight out of an iPod Classic, maybe the p7 needs an amp to sound its best.

I will say this, the more I listen to the P7 the more I like it...
Disagree and neither do I care to facilitate this trend where people categorise everything into extremes. Very few headphones are like that. I expect this is more to do with people having personal reference points and comparing new headphones to their own baseline but not perhaps putting things in quite the right way

Nexus 4, clip zip rockbox and clas -dB + pico power rigs. I don't get this recessed mid range perception and I hope people do not think this will have a particular tuned tsshy treble like Beyer. It is very consumer. The point of these headphones be it Momentum or P7 are to compete with Beats but for people who want more to the sound
post #225 of 1468
Where did I say anything extreme? All I said is that I agreed with Justin that when compared directly with the Senna the mids didn't seem quite as present. Nowhere did I say anything like the P7 have no mids or anything really extreme in nature so I'm not sure what exactly you're reading into my post.

So because I have a different opinion that not I'm 'not putting things the correct way'? Now there's an extreme statement if I ever heard one, Nonody said anything about a harsh high end, at least not that I saw, so again not sure why you think people would read this thread and come to that conclusion.

You can disagree with my opinion all you want, but don't then try to degrade it by calling it extreme.

I'll allow that perhaps my thought on the difference being obvious could be misconstrued as extreme, but that comment was clearly in context of wondering if it was a source issue or there was some variability between units.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Bowers & Wilkins P7 - over the ear headphones