Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Amplifiers shootout for Stax 009 (Eddie Current Electra, AudioValve RKV + WooAudio Wee, Stax SRM727 / SRM007t2)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Amplifiers shootout for Stax 009 (Eddie Current Electra, AudioValve RKV + WooAudio Wee, Stax... - Page 2

post #16 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post
 

Just  a suggestion here since I see you used a PS Audio Power Plant (a regenerator)...

Quite a few years back I tried a PS Audio Power Plant (the 3-something model, PS300 I think) on my Stax SR007 (mark 1) phone / 007t amp system,

and it completely ruined the sound (I described this sometime back here in the forums somewhere).

 

The amp started running very hot, the tubes lit up brighter than before, and the sound turned bright, aggressive, with thumping bass, and it was unlistenable.

This was completely opposite to the mellow sound I heard without the power plant.

I later used a Shunyata Hydra with this system with no  problems, just some subtle improvement in the highs.

 

I actually called PS Audio to ask if this was normal and they said it does happen with some tube amps, and in fact this was a common complaint.

They took the amp back and refunded my money.

 

So I think the Power Plant may have wrecked the Stax amp sound.

(And God knows what it did to the other amps.)

 

Hello,

 

Peter's answer to your question on the forum HCFR:

 

In French

“Ce témoignage est à prendre en compte, c'est sûr.

Mais je ne penses pas, non, que le P3 ait altéré le son du 007.

J'avais fait des essais chez moi à plusieurs reprises, et j'avais trouvé plus de précision avec le P3

Ensuite, le test du samedi soir dont j'ai joint plus haut la feuille, montre que j'avais préféré le 007 connecté au P3 plutôt que le RKV...

Bon,

à suivre !

Pierre”

 

Translate

"This testimony is to consider, for sure.

But I do not think, no, the P3 has altered the sound of the 007.

I did some tests with me several times, and I found more accurately with the P3

Then the test Saturday night which I attached above the sheet shows that I preferred the 007 connected to P3 rather than the RKV ...

Good ;  to follow!

Pierre"

 

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-5025.html

 

 

NB: The SRM 007T was used as the reference amplifier (A) the Saturday night for an pre-test in blind. This pre-test was canceled after only one music track due to the late hour and the fatigue of the one of the participants.

 

The test was therefore postponed the next day (Sunday morning) with this time the RKV-Wee amp as reference (A). This true test in blind was produced in its entirety Sunday morning (with 5 titles music) as opposed to the pre-test aborted Saturday night.

 

Eric

 


Edited by eric65 - 9/18/13 at 8:03am
post #17 of 95

Pierre,

Merci Bien!

Rich

post #18 of 95

Hi everyone.

 

I can fully understand that one can be surprised on the results of the blind test conducted Sunday, Sept. 8 , in the morning, on the listening blind comparative of four amps : (the Electra 727 and SRM SRM 007T opposed to RKV -Wee , which served for the latter, in our procedure, as reference amp (A)).

I can also understand that we can challenge this procedure and it can be further improved (to us to suggest how).

I can finally understand with the results obtained, one can question the validity of blind tests despite the rigor of our process.

 

The Electra " best amp on paper " has not supplanted soundly other three amps list (the RKV -Wee , the SRM 727 and SRM 007T). It does not surprise for me because personally I was pretty confident in the ability of my  RKV-Wee to reproduce the beautiful music of different styles of music with good records , and also, but to a lesser extent , in my 727 ( before I yield to André ) (with the correct phase AC ) provided they do not listen to this amp too loud.


I think that Pierre knew in advance (we had already discussed between us) that also as good can be the Electra, the 727 and RKV-Wee  would not be far behind and would not in any case distanced, because themselves already very good.

So I was pretty confident in my RKV -Wee on the "overall musicality " and good synergy ( a good marriage ) with 009, and I was rather calm and curious to see what would be his confrontation with the Electra , especially in an blind procedure at our meeting on 7 and 8 September, despite a difficult start on Saturday afternoon (with Japanese drums).


About SRM 007T amp at Pierre (without P3) , I was able to compare a few days at home (in April 2013) with my RKV-Wee and my 727 amp, and I 've never hidden that her " musicality " (SRM 007t amp) seemed less good than the other two amplifiers (727 and RKV -Wee ), mainly because of its " lack of life " with 009 and a certain blandness that repelled me . The words may be severe , but if you reread my two reviews made ​​about him (SRM 007T vs SRM 727 vs RKV -Wee ), I think I was quite explicit about it (see my CR1 (end of page) http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-3855.html  and my CR2 ( top of page http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-3870.html) (in french)

 

The test results in complete blind, five titles , Sunday morning (8/ 09) and not partial , only one  title on Saturday night (7/ 09) , so do not surprise me, both for the absence of hegemony of Electra amp (which does not significantly differ (statistically) in  this blind test compared with RKV -Wee and SRM 727) or the last position of the SRM 007T amp compared to the other three amps list (rating difference seems statistically for this significant time) .

After that, it does not mean that, in the absolute, that the SRM 007T is a bad amp with 009, but only, compared to the other three amps, with blind procedure , the SRM 007t appears to be generally below , at least for the evaluation of two testers (Pierre and Frederic) during the blind test on Sunday morning (8/ 09).

 

In my opinion, this result "objective" test statistic in blind does not surprise me and is consistent with my impressions (subjective) as transcribed on the French forum HCFR in my two links above (CR1 and CR2) for these two reports made ​​in April 2013 in a comparative listening (not blind) of Stax SRM 727, SRM 007 amp with the combi RKV-Wee(challenger amp) on the Stax SR 009.

 

Eric

 

 


Edited by eric65 - 9/19/13 at 12:40am
post #19 of 95

For information, tubes PSVANE the electra had only 30 hours broken in during the test. 

post #20 of 95

Good evening

We discussed between us on the French forum HCFR to try to improve our comparative test of the four amplifiers with SR 009, single-blind, with four testers "naive" (than never heard the amplifiers tested).

This is feasible in theory in a blind test procedure whose execution time is between 8 and 16 hours over 2 days, involving 4 headphones Stax SR 009, four testers "naive", 2 operators + 3 owners of the amps tested (owners do not have the right to test their own equipment in the new procedure).

We agree to say on HCFR it's better, but nobody wants to achieve this improved test because too heavy and difficult to achieve in practice.

For the moment we confine us at the results of our simplified single-blind test conducted on September 8, aware of the possible bias, but also aware of the value of such a procedure blind to dispose of its subjectivity.

This subjectivity explain why the assessments of an amplifier are so contradictory from one person to another when the person knows the amplifier listened  (see the current issue regarding the confrontation of KGSSHV with the LL1 amp).

This subjectivity can be reduced by a blind procedure more or less developed, hence the need to try to do it for more objectivity in the results.

Eric

 

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-5055.html


Edited by eric65 - 9/20/13 at 4:18pm
post #21 of 95

Oh my! Awesome! That is pure awesome.

post #22 of 95

Hello everyone,
 
If you had to choose between these four amplifiers (Electra, combo RKV-Wee, Stax SRM 727 and Stax SRM 007T) for the headphones Stax SR-009, at the end of the tests in blind and non-blind  realised at the weekend of 7 and 8 September, I would say the following:
The first three amplifiers, in this list, are all three very good and well matched (good synergy) with the SR-009. 
In this blind test procedure, these three amps (Electra, combo RKV-Wee, Stax SRM 727) are not separated from each other significantly.
After, following the style of listening to music, you can have preferences:
To listen to symphonic music and large ensembles, the Electra and the Stax SRM 727 are excellent in their degree of definition and analysis.
To listen to jazz and baroque music, the combo RKV-Wee, by the beauty of its sound (timbre) and his tone slightly warm and round, especially with the bass and the strings, is particularly good to listening.
 
Eric


Edited by eric65 - 9/25/13 at 7:52am
post #23 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

I hate to say it, but I actually kind of like the 727 with the SR-009.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/681729/comparisons-of-the-liquid-lightning-and-kgsshv-solid-state-stax-amplifiers/105#post_9824248

 

Why say this?

Why should we hate the Stax brand and especially the amplifier SRM 727,  an high-end amplifier produced by Stax to operate with a very high quality with most Stax headphones, like the high end SR 009 ?

Nothing justifies the disenchantment of this amplifier Stax, if we are to believe our blind test of four amplifiers with the 009 made ​​on September 8 where the amplifier Stax SRM 727 did not differ significantly from one of the best amplifiers ever produced currently, the Eddie Current Electra, optimized specifically  for 009 with PSVANES tubes.
Subjectively speaking, the amplifier Stax SRM 727 (I've owned like the combo RKV-Wee) is an excellent amplifier that works very well with the 009,  provided not to listen too hard, which is generally the case of many amplifiers.

 

post #24 of 95

 

It's what you said. The SRM727 falls apart driving the 009 at higher SPL. The SRM727 is also generally not well regarded in the sense that it's not used or recommended often by the STAX aficionados, at least the well known ones on HF. (Although I know of several SR009 owners using it with the SRM727.) I think it's easy to forget, myself included, that the SRM727-SR009 pairing is indeed very good.


Edited by purrin - 9/28/13 at 7:19pm
post #25 of 95

It's just that the other amps are better.

 

I think that we can overplay the differences in amps a bit.

 

Sometimes when just enjoying the music, any amp will do.

 

Other times when looking to get the last little nuance out of the music, the difference can seem vast, especially when one amp highlights some nuance you particularly like that the other amp doesn't reproduce nearly as well.

post #26 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

I hate to say it, but I actually kind of like the 727 with the SR-009.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

It's what you said. The SRM727 falls apart driving the 009 at higher SPL. The SRM727 is also generally not well regarded in the sense that it's not used or recommended often by the STAX aficionados, at least the well known ones on HF. (Although I know of several SR009 owners using it with the SRM727.) I think it's easy to forget, myself included, that the SRM727-SR009 pairing is indeed very good.

 

Hi purrin.
 

Indeed, the SRM 727 is very good (for listening with the 009), provided not to listen too hard (which was the case during our blind test), otherwise some voice (female) can be hard to hear. (N.B. : Electra amp and the combo RKV-Wee are more tolerant at higher SPL)
You just have to be aware of this feature of the 727.

Probably, the future very high-end Stax amplifier, "T2 like", should normally address this "small default" of the Stax SRM 727 amp.


Edited by eric65 - 9/29/13 at 1:35am
post #27 of 95

Hello,

 

We spoke with Arnaud in the French forum Stax HCFR about the problem of non-linearity of the SRM 727 amp (with the elimination of the local feedback at the output stage of the 727) depending on the volume level SPL listened.

 

Two interpretations can be given to the non-linearity of the 727 amplifier according to the volume level SPL listened :


1- The SRM 727 amp is even better when it is heard at low volume to be better than all other Stax amps (except T2) at low listening levels. (NB: dynamic exacerbated (or amplified) at low listening level).
2- The SRM 727 amp is even worse when it is listened to high volume, to become worse than the other Stax amps at high listening level. (NB: dynamic collapsed (or reduced) at high listening level).

 

You choose  ;)

 

Eric

 

French link: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177787513.html#p177787513 and http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177787526.html#p177787526


Edited by eric65 - 10/1/13 at 2:06am
post #28 of 95

Eric,

 

Do you guys plan to do another blind test with more Stax/electrostatic amplifiers/headphones?

post #29 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
 

Eric,

 

Do you guys plan to do another blind test with more Stax/electrostatic amplifiers/headphones?

 

Hello DefQon.

 

We discussed between us on the HCFR forum and have concluded that a blind test improved with four amplifiers on the Stax headphones 009 would be too heavy to achieve as requiring the intervention of four naive testers on the test material (ie not not knowing the amps for more objectivity despite the blind procedure) and four headphones Stax 009 (we have only three) and also too much time to achieve these improved tests (8 to 16 hours of procedure, against 4 hours of procedure for the test conducted on September 8).  

 

At the moment we do not give away our blind test and we will not do other blind tests amp because of the too heavy procedure with time and personnel required.

 

Eric

 

PS: blind tests with other amps Stax could perhaps give terrible results for the Stax brand : as SRM 323s amp versus SRM 007T amp for example?  ;) 


Edited by eric65 - 10/1/13 at 2:58am
post #30 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric65 View Post
 

 

Hello DefQon.

 

We discussed between us on the HCFR forum and have concluded that a blind test improved with four amplifiers on the Stax headphones 009 would be too heavy to achieve as requiring the intervention of four naive testers on the test material (ie not not knowing the amps for more objectivity despite the blind procedure) and four headphones Stax 009 (we have only three) and also too much time to achieve these improved tests (8 to 16 hours of procedure, against 4 hours of procedure for the test conducted on September 8).  

 

At the moment we do not give away our blind test and we will not do other blind tests amp because of the too heavy procedure with time and personnel required.

 

Eric

 

PS: blind tests with other amps Stax could perhaps give terrible results for the Stax brand : as SRM 323s amp versus SRM 007T amp for example?  ;) 

Fair enough, not really though I think it would be even better if you guys gathered every Stax amp you can find and do a blind test. I personally have heard enough (complete stock units, no mods as that would be cheating) to say and justify that all Stax solid state design amp's sound similar one or another for some trade-offs of each other. And believe it or not the 323S may be an entry in the Stax offering it is better than the tube based Stax amplifier's.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Amplifiers shootout for Stax 009 (Eddie Current Electra, AudioValve RKV + WooAudio Wee, Stax SRM727 / SRM007t2)