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post #16 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post

No it doesn't, limited to 16/48. CD's are 16/44 anyway. If you really want 24/96, then you will need a dac that is capable of it (like the modi).
Not needed though, just wasting your money. They sound perfect as is.

Don't be fooled by the size of these things, the bass is very satisfying. They are small and sexy, perfect for a pc.
Go listen to them first at an apple store before you do anything. They will be one of the best speakers you ever hear.
I recommend them to everyone, I love them!

Thanks! I'll look into that. I loved everything about the MM-1 until someone mentioned the 24/96 issue, but I guess 16/48 and 24/96 aren't too different then.
post #17 of 40

I haven't compared a lot of Computer speakers, but I recently bought a pair of Aktimate Micro's.  Wonderful little speakers, and well worth considering.

 

As a point of reference, my main listening with my PC is done with a Luxman DA-200 DAC / Amp with Sennheiser HD800's.  I'm not saying that the Aktimate's are that good; only highlighting that sound quality matters to me.

 

Also check eBay - I was tempted by a pair of Quad (as in Electrostatic speakers, valve amps, etc) desktop speakers - some very good prices and excellent reviews.  I went with the Aktimates because I got them from a local brick and mortar shop - gotta support these guys whenever possible.

 

Good luck.

 

Bob

post #18 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhlin View Post

Thanks! I'll look into that. I loved everything about the MM-1 until someone mentioned the 24/96 issue, but I guess 16/48 and 24/96 aren't too different then.

I'm really leaning towards the MM-1's now since my only previous concern was the 24/96 issue. But since you said the sound difference isn't noticeable, I'm going to consider getting one.

But before I do, I still want to do some more research about the focal xs book and the airmotiv 5. The focal is $300 and the airmotiv 5 is $450 (?) and they seem to get better better reviews than the MM-1. Maybe because they're bigger and have more power? But for my purposes I don't need to boost up the volume too much anyways, so...
post #19 of 40
Thread Starter 
When comparing speakers of similar quality, would it be right to assume that bigger speakers (the airmotiv's) would be better than the smaller speakers (the B&W)?

The tweeters and woofers are all larger right? So more power and better clarity?
post #20 of 40

When you move from a headphone to a speaker, you're going to take an automatic loss in resolution/SQ because of the "1:10 speaker:headphone ratio" everyone talks about around here. I do not understand the recent fascination with small monitor speakers on this forum. If you're going to buy speakers, you might as well buy a set that has at least a 5.25" woofer built-in or a proper subwoofer. Those setups are going to have lackluster bass compared to your HD800's - not pathetic - admittedly I have heard some of these speakers with some really impressive bass for their size, but you can't change the laws of physics.

 

This is why I always recommend just getting a really cheap computer speaker system with a proper subwoofer like the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 for computer use. When you plug them in, they will give you the speaker "wow" factor that headphones cannot provide. Sure, the high-end detail will be crap, but who cares? I personally save my serious listening on my "good" headphone rig and my "good" speaker rig.

 

What source are you going to be using? What source do you use for your HD800's? I doubt speakers in this pricerange will really see a huge benefit from a source upgrade.

post #21 of 40

I'm upgrading from Klipsch Promedia 2.1 to Airmotiv 4s.  I'll be running it out of a dedicated DAC.  I'll let you know how much improvement there is.

post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD1032 View Post

When you move from a headphone to a speaker, you're going to take an automatic loss in resolution/SQ because of the "1:10 speaker:headphone ratio" everyone talks about around here.

What's the 1:10 speaker: headphone ratio?
post #23 of 40

Basically, in order to get the same level of sound quality from a speaker, you have to spend 10 times as much as on an equivalent headphone. It is only a rule of thumb and in reality the gap is probably closing as speaker and amplifier technology gets better and headphones go up in price, but in general, you would need to spend $2000 on a speaker setup to get the same resolution as a $200 headphone. Headphones are a relatively inexpensive way to experience true hi-fi.

 

Now, I recognize that my argument is making a gross generalization and lumping near-field monitors in with speakers where near-field monitors are designed to sacrifice volume for fidelity moreso than a "real" speaker setup that can easily fill a room, but you are still paying for a more expensive amplifier, enclosure, multiple drivers, and crossover networks that headphones do not require.


Edited by MD1032 - 9/18/13 at 7:49am
post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD1032 View Post

Basically, in order to get the same level of sound quality from a speaker, you have to spend 10 times as much as on an equivalent headphone. It is only a rule of thumb and in reality the gap is probably closing as speaker and amplifier technology gets better and headphones go up in price, but in general, you would need to spend $2000 on a speaker setup to get the same resolution as a $200 headphone. Headphones are a relatively inexpensive way to experience true hi-fi.

Now, I recognize that my argument is making a gross generalization and lumping near-field monitors in with speakers where near-field monitors are designed to sacrifice volume for fidelity moreso than a "real" speaker setup that can easily fill a room, but you are still paying for a more expensive amplifier, enclosure, multiple drivers, and crossover networks that headphones do not require.

Likely different, too, depending on what class of headphone one has. Nearfield usage might make a difference the other way because a speaker setup for a room with a listening position in a chair or couch 8 or 10 feet away can be plagued by reflection issues which would affect the highs, thus impacting clarity. Headphones just don't have that problem.

I liked your other comment about subwoofers. I recently got an SVS SB-1000 which has better bass SQ than any mid-fi headphone I have heard. Plus, with songs with sub bass, the sub creates a fuller soundstage in my desktop setup. And then no headphone can make up for the tactile sensation of feeling the sub bass smily_headphones1.gif

But yeah. I love threads that ask for "best $100 computer speakers" when someone owns $300 or $400 headphones. To me, there is no "best" in that case because the SQ difference is orders of magnitude worse than what the user is experiencing with their headphones. LOL
post #25 of 40

You are talking myths, I own Beyer DT770's costing a little over $125 at time of purchase, I also own Shure SRH440 in a similar price range.  By your "example" I would need to spend $1250 to get similar sound quality.  Well I spent approximately that on ADAM A7x speakers (less in fact) and the headphones are not even in the same league.  No sub added, just a straight 7" main driver and well I would NEVER use my headphones for anything other than comparing a mix.  I would never use them for home listening even if the wife and kids complained, they would have to move out.  To say there is a 10:1 ratio is just pulling numbers out of thin air.  A single driver in a headphone will never come close to matching an average set of monitor, THAT is physics.  How many people on this site would choose headphones as a main means of listening?  Most people use headphones for privacy and respect of others, or they dont have space for huge speakers in their listening area, or the listen on a mobile device.  

 

In regards to the OP look up 2nd generation KRK RP6's as you will find them dropping in price since the recent release of the 3rd gen.  You will likely get them under budget if you shop around and you can add a sub later if you feel you need it.

post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tablix View Post

A single driver in a headphone will never come close to matching an average set of monitor, THAT is physics.

Can you explain the physics of that? I'm not certain that's necessarily true, but I would be happy to be convinced smily_headphones1.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tablix View Post

How many people on this site would choose headphones as a main means of listening?  Most people use headphones for privacy and respect of others, or they dont have space for huge speakers in their listening area, or the listen on a mobile device.  

There are plenty of people here that prefer the headphone listening experience to speaker audio. The listening experiences are different enough that it's like comparing apples to oranges. Some people will like a mediocre orange over a fantastic apple and vice versa.
post #27 of 40

Tell me how a 40-50mm driver can accurately present the complete frequency range as clearly and accurately as 2 or that are larger in size and playing different ends of the audible spectrum.  Why do studio's use speakers for monitoring?  You have over 3000 posts in 18months, and offer advice on any number of subject but don't realise the ONLY issue speakers have over headphones is noise reflection.  A well treated listening room with well placed speakers will offer you a sound that no headphone can, from my perspective.

 

If people honestly prefer headphones, then that's fine by me, I just cannot understand how.  Music is recorded FOR speakers, not headphones (99% of the time).  A recording engineer is not mastering a record to sound great on left channel to left ear, right channel to right ear like a headphone is presenting the recording to the listener.  He is mastering it to sound great presented through speakers, where both ears are picking up both channels at the same time.  

 

This is WAY off topic and turning into a personal debate, feel free to PM me is you wish to continue the discussion.  You may want to ask more qualified people their opinions and I would suggest asking here http://homerecording.com/bbs/ where you will find plenty of qualified engineers and studio owners.  

post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tablix View Post

Tell me how a 40-50mm driver can accurately present the complete frequency range as clearly and accurately as 2 or that are larger in size and playing different ends of the audible spectrum.  

I asked you to explain your claim that "A single driver in a headphone will never come close to matching an average set of monitor, THAT is physics." Instead, you have merely restated your claim without explaining the physics of what you say, but also you have changed the claim, narrowing it to make clarity AND accuracy the requirement. That may be your measure of what is better, but it is not everyones.

However, there are planar magnetic headphones and dual armature IEMs that have been measured to have extremely neutral responses with a lot of clarity, even more so than what one would get out of speakers close to the same price range.
Quote:
Why do studio's use speakers for monitoring?  You have over 3000 posts in 18months, and offer advice on any number of subject but don't realise the ONLY issue speakers have over headphones is noise reflection.  A well treated listening room with well placed speakers will offer you a sound that no headphone can, from my perspective.

The argument over whether or not headphones vs speakers are different/same/better for audio production use is not the same as when they are used for personal listening. Audio production has specific requirements of speakers that can be different from what an individual user may have with their listening tastes. Note that the topic of this thread does not seem to be focused on pro audio use.

How many posts someone has on this forum is irrelevant to whether or not their point is valid. That being said, MOST people on this forum will not be listening to their speakers in a treated room.
Quote:
You may want to ask more qualified people their opinions and I would suggest asking here http://homerecording.com/bbs/ where you will find plenty of qualified engineers and studio owners.

I would suggest that you might want to hang out some on some non-pro audio forums so that you learn that pro audio use/preferences does not necessarily equal personal use/listening.
post #29 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

However, there are planar magnetic headphones and dual armature IEMs that have been measured to have extremely neutral responses with a lot of clarity, even more so than what one would get out of speakers close to the same price range.
 

 

I agree! I have to say that I LOVE my balanced armature IEMs. Lots of clarity, accurate and neutral sound reproduction, and just amazing to listen to.

 

Personally, I think that headphones and IEMs produce a different environment/atmosphere that many people might prefer. Headphones and IEMs seem to provide a more immersive and intimate listening experience--one that I rarely experience with speakers. There is just something about the headphone/IEM experience that speakers can't reproduce.

post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhlin View Post

I agree! I have to say that I LOVE my balanced armature IEMs. Lots of clarity, accurate and neutral sound reproduction, and just amazing to listen to.

Which do you have? I have the Ety ER4Ps and had the Rokit R-50s (gave them to my son). smily_headphones1.gif
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