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Holy Schiit! Add DSD to any DAC for $149. Meet Loki... - Page 7

post #91 of 116

I never really got much into the SACD because of Sony choice to put copy restrictions on fair home usage of the files. When DSD files became available as files downloads it made more sense. However it was the Demo of PS Audio new DirectStream at their offices that I became more interested in this format. I find that the number of DSD files that I would be interested in has mushroomed from last year and reach "crucial mass" as a  marketable format for my needs as well. I think that Jason needs to take another look just as I did.


Edited by john57 - 3/10/14 at 5:08am
post #92 of 116

My current setup is

 

Notebook Windows 8.1 -> JRiver 19 (WASAPI), DSP not use except DSD file will be down to 192 -> Woo WA7 (DAC/AMP) -> AT woodies

 


I just want to know if I add Loki in the chain, this will improve the SQ of FLAC file?

 

Notebook Windows 8.1 -> JRiver 19 (WASAPI), DSD over PCM -> Loki -> Woo WA7 (AMP Only)-> AT woodies


 

I have around 100+ SACD that I will hire some shop to rip into iso file. But I also have thousand FLAC filess (EAC own ripped).

 

Will Loki with DSD over PCM setting will improve the SQ of my flac files

 

Thanks for any input

post #93 of 116

@mikroski:  Which shop can rip SACDs?

post #94 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by walfredo View Post
 

@mikroski:  Which shop can rip SACDs?

I live in Thailand, there is some audiophile shop that has Play Station to service to customers that want to rip their SACD.

post #95 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikroski View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walfredo View Post
 

@mikroski:  Which shop can rip SACDs?

I live in Thailand, there is some audiophile shop that has Play Station to service to customers that want to rip their SACD.

Cool.  I wish we had the same in the US.

post #96 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikroski View Post
 

My current setup is

 

Notebook Windows 8.1 -> JRiver 19 (WASAPI), DSP not use except DSD file will be down to 192 -> Woo WA7 (DAC/AMP) -> AT woodies

 


I just want to know if I add Loki in the chain, this will improve the SQ of FLAC file?

 

Notebook Windows 8.1 -> JRiver 19 (WASAPI), DSD over PCM -> Loki -> Woo WA7 (AMP Only)-> AT woodies


 

I have around 100+ SACD that I will hire some shop to rip into iso file. But I also have thousand FLAC filess (EAC own ripped).

 

Will Loki with DSD over PCM setting will improve the SQ of my flac files

 

Thanks for any input

I received my Loki and have the output of of my PCM DAC going into the Loki. The output of my Loki goes to a  4 port RCA audio switch box.  That way I can use either my network receiver or my two vacuum  tube amps. The knob on the front on the Loki is a push button to allow the output of the PCM DAC in my computer to the 4 port RCA audio switch box so that I can have audio from Internet streaming like Netflix or YouTube and others as an example.

 

You can use J.River to convert all PCM audio files to DSD in real time to the Loki. It is preferred to use a I7 Intel processor chip for real time processing. There is another option in J.River to use the advanced tools to convert the PCM files into DSD offline which may be a better option if you have a slower processor chip in your laptop or desktop. I still evaluating the different options regarding SQ and will get back to you in a day or two.

post #97 of 116
Hi,


Loki is not really an option for critical listening. I'm using it for everyday renderer with JRemote on an iPad. It's very convenient to listen to virtually all of your music library with JRiver "upsampling" everything to DSD. On the other hand you can't expect from a 150 USD device to outperform dedicated SACD and/or PCM players of upper class.
After using it for couple of months all I can say is that it's not much worse than my NAD M5 SACD player and a MF M1 DAC. Direct comparisons are tricky because Loki has a weaker output signal. I do not own an equipment able to equalize the level of the players so this is general impression opinion.



Regards
Edited by ivo.p - 3/22/14 at 2:41am
post #98 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by john57 View Post
You can use J.River to convert all PCM audio files to DSD in real time to the Loki. It is preferred to use a I7 Intel processor chip for real time processing.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivo.p View Post

Loki is not really an option for critical listening. I'm using it for everyday renderer with JRemote on an iPad. It's very convenient to listen to virtually all of your music library with JRiver "upsampling" everything to DSD. On the other hand you can't expect from a 150 USD device to outperform dedicated SACD and/or PCM players of upper class.
After using it for couple of months all I can say is that it's not much worse than my NAD M5 SACD player and a MF M1 DAC. Direct comparisons are tricky because Loki has a weaker output signal. I do not own an equipment able to equalize the level of the players so this is general impression opinion.

Recently I shortened the switch on the Loki with good quality cable (I wasn't comfortable with the switch connections) and replaced the AD8616 470 mF power supply Capacitor with a Rubycon 2200mF capacitor. Thus the capacity of the AD8616 power supply rises to near 3000 mF with zero ESR according to my meter (there's a coupling capacitor, probably tantalum with capacity of 470mF I think).
I' not sure it's sounds better since but at least the op-amp has enough power to do what he should.

Regards

Dear All,

 

Thanks for information, I just check with JR web board, Matt recommend the computer should have JRMark around 3000 to perform PCM to DSD on the fly. My notebook only score 1900. And as

ivo.p's comment. I think I should consider an all in one DSD Dac. This one looking good http://amimuse.com/products/ami-musik-ds5/

post #99 of 116

Sorry that I did not get back you. I disagree with  ivo.p that the Loki can be used for critical listening. It is a remarkable DSD only DAC that gives the soundstage more depth and sound more natural than the 8 DAC's  I had. The Loki is a bit smoother as well. There is a level difference about 6db but I excepted that. My Desktop is near 3000 for the JRiver benchmark and the Lori does DSD65 only not DSD128. You can use JRiver to convert the files offline. I can understand you wanted all in one DAC. I have no problem with the Loki switch. There is a slight click at the start of playback. Good luck on the MUSIK DS5


Edited by john57 - 3/21/14 at 10:02am
post #100 of 116

Is there a perceived benefit to converting PCM to DSD to play back on Loki vs. a high-end PCM DAC? I'm confused how one can make a $150 DAC that could outperform SO much higher, even being DSD only. Is it the money into all the stuff surrounding the DAC that makes them more expensive, and not the DAC chip itself? It just seems like the things those high-end DACs have that make them $500, $1k+ couldn't be present in the Loki at $150. If anything I'd think there'd need to be *more* to fully take advantage of DSD vs. PCM. I guess I'm asking, does Loki *really* take *full* advantage of DSD at its price point? I'm just thrown off (not in a bad way!). I suppose I'm also asking, why invest in a high end DAC over converting to DSD and using a Loki permanently?

post #101 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post
 

Is there a perceived benefit to converting PCM to DSD to play back on Loki vs. a high-end PCM DAC? I'm confused how one can make a $150 DAC that could outperform SO much higher, even being DSD only. Is it the money into all the stuff surrounding the DAC that makes them more expensive, and not the DAC chip itself? It just seems like the things those high-end DACs have that make them $500, $1k+ couldn't be present in the Loki at $150. If anything I'd think there'd need to be *more* to fully take advantage of DSD vs. PCM. I guess I'm asking, does Loki *really* take *full* advantage of DSD at its price point? I'm just thrown off (not in a bad way!). I suppose I'm also asking, why invest in a high end DAC over converting to DSD and using a Loki permanently?

 

Conversion: IMHO - no.  I have both a Loki and a Gungnir.  They each have their own USB and I can switch back and forth by changing the config in Audirvana.  I like the sound and dynamics of the Gungnir better than the Loki - usually.  Since the Loki is powered from the USB (5v), the voltage swing (preamp-out) is MUCH lower than the Gungnir with it's own power supply AND Balanced Outputs.

 

Where the Loki is nice - I can play my SACD iso rips with no conversion.  SACD internally is native DSD and Audirvana handles that nicely - just drag/drop the iso image on the player and have at it.

 

So is it worth having both?  Yes, if you have a lot of DSD content and/or a lot of SACD rips.

 

Cheers,

Frank

post #102 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankty View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post
 

Is there a perceived benefit to converting PCM to DSD to play back on Loki vs. a high-end PCM DAC? I'm confused how one can make a $150 DAC that could outperform SO much higher, even being DSD only. Is it the money into all the stuff surrounding the DAC that makes them more expensive, and not the DAC chip itself? It just seems like the things those high-end DACs have that make them $500, $1k+ couldn't be present in the Loki at $150. If anything I'd think there'd need to be *more* to fully take advantage of DSD vs. PCM. I guess I'm asking, does Loki *really* take *full* advantage of DSD at its price point? I'm just thrown off (not in a bad way!). I suppose I'm also asking, why invest in a high end DAC over converting to DSD and using a Loki permanently?

 

Conversion: IMHO - no.  I have both a Loki and a Gungnir.  They each have their own USB and I can switch back and forth by changing the config in Audirvana.  I like the sound and dynamics of the Gungnir better than the Loki - usually.  Since the Loki is powered from the USB (5v), the voltage swing (preamp-out) is MUCH lower than the Gungnir with it's own power supply AND Balanced Outputs.

 

Where the Loki is nice - I can play my SACD iso rips with no conversion.  SACD internally is native DSD and Audirvana handles that nicely - just drag/drop the iso image on the player and have at it.

 

So is it worth having both?  Yes, if you have a lot of DSD content and/or a lot of SACD rips.

 

Cheers,

Frank

 

Hi Frank!!

 

Does unconverted DSD via Loki sound better than converting it to PCM to use Gungnir?

 

Thanks,

Walfredo

post #103 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by walfredo View Post
 

 

Hi Frank!!

 

Does unconverted DSD via Loki sound better than converting it to PCM to use Gungnir?

 

Thanks,

Walfredo

 

Quite honestly, I can't really tell.  But it's an Apples vs Oranges comparison.  The Loki is single-ended, the Gungnir is balanced.  There is more going on than DSD vs PCM.  I can tell you that Loki does not sound *worse* than the Gungnir, so (for me) it's worth having on convenience alone.

post #104 of 116

It's just hard to measure the quality of the Loki because of its independent nature. We're trying to get a grip on how good of a DAC Loki really is...with no point of reference. I'm sure it's plenty good, but is the little $150 DAC going to do proper justice to those ultra hi-res files, especially compared to high-end PCM DACs?

post #105 of 116

All I can say I is that I have ordered the Loki, it has got to be a good way of seeing if you like DSD over PCM.  The question is, are the 2 formats just different but equally as good ?

and for $150 it is worth a go. otherwise I will have to spend between 500 to 1000 dolors to get a DAC that can do both and then I would have to get rid of the Bifrost which I like a lot 

and I have upgraded both boards on it. so for me Loki is the only solution 

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